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Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

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31–39 of 39 posts

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#31

As someone who spent 20 or more years believing Britain should leave the EEC/EU for the last decade or so I've been an increasingly enthusiastic European. Not because I believe in the institution as such, but because it has become the only real check on our ever more broken democracy. Dear letter writer, the view from London counts for nothing, you should try a view from the minor colonies (UK outside London and the…

I'm on the other side of the pond, but: If London mostly ignores things outside of London, what makes you think Brussels will be more attentive?

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#32
post #26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've posted many uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. Please stop doing this.

How it is saying to UK leave being uncivil?

What you posted adds no information and comes across as the expression of a prejudice.

As I mentioned, you've unfortunately been violating the spirit of this site quite a bit. Please re-read the HN guidelines and post civil and substantive comments only from now on:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11192140 and marked it off-topic.)

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#34

As someone who spent 20 or more years believing Britain should leave the EEC/EU for the last decade or so I've been an increasingly enthusiastic European. Not because I believe in the institution as such, but because it has become the only real check on our ever more broken democracy. Dear letter writer, the view from London counts for nothing, you should try a view from the minor colonies (UK outside London and the…

I'm on the other side of the pond, but: If London mostly ignores things outside of London, what makes you think Brussels will be more attentive?

I don't think they are more attentive, but the framework currently curbs the more extreme tendencies of our government(s). Most obvious example is the human rights act (ironically the ECHR is not a body of the EU, despite most media and political spin here implying it is), but also includes the restrictions on GM, safety, and generally in the area of social, labour and market regulation.

Yes, the UK has opted out of several parts, but it can't (yet) opt out of everything. There's precious little accountability within the EU, but it does, at least for now, hold a more centerist position.

Also the EU regional development funds have done more for the UK regions than Westminster ever has.

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#35
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the French do not like the UK in the EU Meh, you should ask French companies like EDF, Bombardier and friends... They don't like the UK in, they love it . No trade barriers, mature and profitable market, no real competitors in traditional industrial sectors anymore... It's almost like printing money.

I should have clarified, French people don't like the EU. More than half don't want the UK in the EU. In addition CDG infamously vetoed the UKs entry in the days of the EEC. The differences in culture in Europe divides people, trade unites them so I guess these companies love it.

Those are sweeping generalizations. CDG is long dead. French people don't like the British attitude of constantly keeping one foot out, and certain elites don't like them weakening the traditional future of a federated (French dominated) Europe (which actually turned out German-dominated, but i digress).

If Britain fully engaged in good faith, joining the Euro, losing the special clauses and renouncing their constant fight to abolish cornerstone policies like agricultural subsidies, I don't think anyone would want them out.

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#36
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have clarified, French people don't like the EU. More than half don't want the UK in the EU. In addition CDG infamously vetoed the UKs entry in the days of the EEC. The differences in culture in Europe divides people, trade unites them so I guess these companies love it.

Those are sweeping generalizations. CDG is long dead. French people don't like the British attitude of constantly keeping one foot out, and certain elites don't like them weakening the traditional future of a federated (French dominated) Europe (which actually turned out German-dominated, but i digress). If Britain fully engaged in good faith, joining the Euro, losing the special clauses and renouncing their constant…

Gosh, I have to get up to speed on the various types of sweeping generalizations.

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#37
post #14

Condensed somewhat: "Dear British voters: Give up. Your objectionable government renders you people unwelcome in our club, and I want you out." Condensed further: "Dear British voters: Screw yourselves. Literally." Either way, this piece propounds a deeply and unnecessarily divisive opinion. We are not our government, and it saddens me greatly to be reminded that the exclusionist prejudices half the Commons are curre…

The last few paragraphs make it clear it's mostly a satyrical take: the author wouldn't vote for brexit if he were British, because there is nothing to gain for the average guy, and even Farage would end up without the only parliament he managed to get elected to. But below the satyrical level, there is a point. The British government has long been unpopular in European circles. British politicians insist in interpre…

A trade zone is what the people voted to join, tho'. We didn't sign up for a federal superstate and if that is what the EU was planning all along, they did a bait and switch.

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#38
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have clarified, French people don't like the EU. More than half don't want the UK in the EU. In addition CDG infamously vetoed the UKs entry in the days of the EEC. The differences in culture in Europe divides people, trade unites them so I guess these companies love it.

Those are sweeping generalizations. CDG is long dead. French people don't like the British attitude of constantly keeping one foot out, and certain elites don't like them weakening the traditional future of a federated (French dominated) Europe (which actually turned out German-dominated, but i digress). If Britain fully engaged in good faith, joining the Euro, losing the special clauses and renouncing their constant…

Every country wanted something out of the EU other countries may have not agreed to, the French wanted agricultural subsidies. If you have 28 countries in a trade union, you're bound to have disagreements.

The government in the UK was particularly enraged about FTT (Financial Transaction Tax) a couple of years ago & that is what has actually led to this whole referendum thing. Every country is good at its own things and they wouldn't like it if was attacked. Imagine a tax on manufactured exports, Germany would have a fit.

It's not like there are policies in the EU that attempt to reduce trade in financial services such as the tobin tax on financial transactions. Italy enacted the tax and its reduced trade quite considerably.

Every country has it's own fight in the EU, it's not just Britian, France had the subsidies problem, Greece had its bailout problem.. each has had its own. There isn't a reason for Britian to be treated differently.

Sweeping generalisations you say? Have you not asked Frenchmen their opinions of the UK in the EU? There are a couple of firms that have done unbiased polls all over the EU and Frenchmen quite simply do not like the UK in the EU, some things just don't change.

CDG is long dead but he is still relevant as he chimes in with the unchanged opinions.

Re: Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit

#39
post #38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are sweeping generalizations. CDG is long dead. French people don't like the British attitude of constantly keeping one foot out, and certain elites don't like them weakening the traditional future of a federated (French dominated) Europe (which actually turned out German-dominated, but i digress). If Britain fully engaged in good faith, joining the Euro, losing the special clauses and renouncing their constant…

Every country wanted something out of the EU other countries may have not agreed to, the French wanted agricultural subsidies. If you have 28 countries in a trade union, you're bound to have disagreements. The government in the UK was particularly enraged about FTT (Financial Transaction Tax) a couple of years ago & that is what has actually led to this whole referendum thing. Every country is good at its own things…

> the French wanted agricultural subsidies

Agricultural policies were planned in 1957 and mostly finalized in 1964, long before the UK even joined. This is what I mean by cornerstone: agriculture, energy, industry, economic development... these were defined at the very beginning with the Treaty of Rome. By constantly attacking them, one undermines the whole setup, and that is unclout from someone who joined much later.

> The government in the UK was particularly enraged about FTT (Financial Transaction Tax) a couple of years ago & that is what has actually led to this whole referendum thing.

You conveniently ignore more than 20 years of sustained attacks by the British press on European legislation on all sorts of issues. UKIP did not start in response to the FTT. The referendum idea started gaining traction around the time Blair won his second mandate, when Brown's position on the Euro looked a bit weak, but had been around ever since Thatcher joined. The actual referendum timetable has been entirely defined by the need for settling disagreements internal to the Conservative Party once they had secured a majority. There is simply no single policy that is responsible for precipitating it.

> It's not like there are policies in the EU that attempt to reduce trade in financial services such as the tobin tax on financial transactions.

These policies were discussed while the UK government went through an acute bout of isolationism. Looking back only a couple of years, Brown's influence over European response to the 2008 crash was widely recognised as huge, and it's a fair bet to say that with him at the negotiating table things would have looked very different.

If you don't engage, they will ignore your needs, simple as.

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