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Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#31

Post by duaneb »

staunch wrote: post #22
duaneb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This may happen in other jobs, but in my 20 years in tech, I have never seen this. It's typically called "culture fit". EDIT: Not all culture fit is bad, I think it's important that people can work together. But it can easily disguise any number of subjective biases, many of which you may not be aware.

Where "culture" really means class. Lower class culture vs upper class culture. Poor people make non-poor people very uncomfortable. The bar scene in Good Will Hunting is such a good example.

I don't necessarily agree with this. There are a number of polarizing factors—ethnicity, religion, politics, age, having a family. Class is only one way to get filtered out.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#32

Post by gtk40 »

falsestprophet wrote: post #24
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

" tech is very very white " Sure tech is generally non-black, but there are load of East Asians and South Asians. It's not exactly the Augusta National Golf Club. There are a lot of places in corporate information technology in the US where tech is "very very" Indian and a white or black or hispanic person may very well be the only non-Indian (or even US citizen or permanent resident) in the room or on the team.

Agreed. Even in a metro with very low Asian population, we have a lot of Asian workers in my I.T. department and it seems to be the case for other companies nearby. Probably we are about 65% non-Hispanic white (including eastern europeans and foreign workers in that number), 30% Asian (about half Asian and half east Asian, with a few southeast Asians), 5% black and Hispanic.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#33

Post by kamau »

falsestprophet wrote: post #24
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

" tech is very very white " Sure tech is generally non-black, but there are load of East Asians and South Asians. It's not exactly the Augusta National Golf Club. There are a lot of places in corporate information technology in the US where tech is "very very" Indian and a white or black or hispanic person may very well be the only non-Indian (or even US citizen or permanent resident) in the room or on the team.

You are correct. My current place of employment is very Indian. In many ways, however, there is less tension in those situations. Often times whites tend to treat non whites in a certain manner that is less than... Now, I am not trying to paint all whites in tech with a broad brush (even if I sounds very much like I am). White people are cool with me, and if I'm to be honest, I have more white friends right now than I do black. So please, understand I am not trying to say "All white people...". I'm not angry. I am instead giving an honest assessment of my experience in tech for the last 15 years, and how it may relate to this story.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#34

Post by some-guy »

falsestprophet wrote: post #24
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

" tech is very very white " Sure tech is generally non-black, but there are load of East Asians and South Asians. It's not exactly the Augusta National Golf Club. There are a lot of places in corporate information technology in the US where tech is "very very" Indian and a white or black or hispanic person may very well be the only non-Indian (or even US citizen or permanent resident) in the room or on the team.

It does vary quite a bit. I've found that the startup scene in SF is extremely white comparatively to the enterprise software company that I work for in SF.

The point still stands though if you replace the word "white" with "non-black / hispanic". There are vast cultural and systemic barriers that some minorities go through in the United States (black / latino) to get to becoming a software engineer, and not others (Asian).

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#35

Post by chroma »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #25
kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

Not long ago there was a report that came out on the quality of work of women software engineers. Turns out it was significantly higher than for the average male software enginee. This is actually not a good thing, and many people came to the wrong conclusions about it. My reading is that women aren't being hired in software unless they can prove themselves to a higher standard than men. I suspect the same is true fo…

That report was simply not true. If anything, it showed there was no bias based on sex. In addition to MollyR's links, see Slate Star Codex's Before You Get Too Excited About that GitHub Study.[1]

1. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/02/12/before-you-get-too-exci...

Edit: If my comment seems unnecessary, it's because MollyR edited-in a link to the Slate Star Codex post before I finished mine. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's read SSC's rebuttal.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#36

Post by duaneb »

bobosha wrote: post #6

It amazes me that "..they discovered that many black and Hispanic students, unlike white and Asian ones, had never heard of this type of interview and were unprepared for it..." How could any programmer worth his/her salt would not know about a whiteboard interview? I think that statement encapsulates it. No only are the schools they are graduating from are woefully inadequate, and they are entering a highly competit…

> Ask yourself how come Asians & Jews do so well? They just work harder and push themselves more.

Wow, talk about broad strokes. I guess I'll refer to you all my slacker asian and jew friends so they can make some easy cash.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#37

Post by stephaniepier »

Archio wrote: post #15

It pains me greatly that the tech industry lacks diversity from minorities like blacks, hispanics, and women. However, I strongly believe that looking at the tech companies and asking why they don't hire more minorities is totally missing the real problem. This is of course one datapoint, but the university I went to (top engineering school in the Northeast US) hosts a big panel for computer-field majors at the annua…

I agree. Speaking from my own experience, I didn't even really understand what computer science was until I was in college (I'm female and from a small town). I had taken a "make your own website" summer class in grade school where we did some super basic HTML but that was it. Why would I choose computer science as a major when I was never really exposed to it and didn't even know what it entailed? I'm now starting to learn python on my own and I think computer science could have been a really good fit for me. I think encouraging kids is a great first step.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#38

Post by fixermark »

Archio wrote: post #15

It pains me greatly that the tech industry lacks diversity from minorities like blacks, hispanics, and women. However, I strongly believe that looking at the tech companies and asking why they don't hire more minorities is totally missing the real problem. This is of course one datapoint, but the university I went to (top engineering school in the Northeast US) hosts a big panel for computer-field majors at the annua…

The sentiment is sometimes expressed as "The pipeline is leaky and full of acid." While true, it doesn't imply that companies should just sit on their hands and wait for the system to be fixed around them. Companies are the core of the power structure economically; they need to be taking an active role in fixing their pipelines.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#39

Post by dajohnson89 »

staunch wrote: post #22
duaneb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This may happen in other jobs, but in my 20 years in tech, I have never seen this. It's typically called "culture fit". EDIT: Not all culture fit is bad, I think it's important that people can work together. But it can easily disguise any number of subjective biases, many of which you may not be aware.

Where "culture" really means class. Lower class culture vs upper class culture. Poor people make non-poor people very uncomfortable. The bar scene in Good Will Hunting is such a good example.

Class is part of it, but culture as a term is often expanded to mean whatever the hiring manager wants it to be.

Re: Why Tech Degrees Are Not Putting More Blacks and Hispanics into Tech Jobs

#40

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

kamau wrote: post #21

Interesting how many people here think that the problem rests solely with Black/Hispanic students. I am a black software engineer. As I see it, there are systemic problems, as you can imagine. But one reason that may be missed here is that sometimes people get weary of being the "only black person in the room". So some of the students may be opting out simply because they want a more diverse workplace, and tech is ve…

I see it as a reasonable continuation of college and professional experience that becomes a problem for both sides when the issue is simply "diversity" without asking deeper questions as to why.

If a college has a large white population, most white people will be friends with mostly white people. Maybe a few start a company. They refer to their networks for early employees. Those networks are mostly white. The early employees become managers and hire primarily through the same channels, perpetuating the imbalance (as defined by having vastly unequal representation compared to the general population).

I have trouble prescribing solutions to diversity imbalances because it is hard to say where and when the imbalance is a problem. The only thing I can imagine that would be helpful is to have more people of different backgrounds engage each other on each other's turf. Make friends. Maybe start a business. Let the networks expand from day one. Otherwise, you're always playing catch-up.

As an aside, I attended RIT, which, aside from being overwhelmingly white, contains the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, which has an awe-inspiring diversity in its student body. That proximity taught me a lot about deaf and hard-of-hearing culture, which, because of the aforementioned incredible racial diversity, taught me a lot about lives other than my own as well.

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