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Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

bbc.com

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Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#31

Post by superuser2 »

corin_ wrote: post #18
superuser2 wrote: post #10

Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totally indifferent to its engineering quality. If I were to own a luxury car, I'd want to know its engineering is rock-solid first and foremost. I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. Maybe that's just a techie thing, though. Volvo has been noto…

Where is Volvo considered a luxury car brand? Here in the UK I don't know anyone who would call it that.

AFAIK the cheapest American Volvo (S60) is about the same price as a BMW 3-Series.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#32

Post by hvjackson »

superuser2 wrote: post #10

Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totally indifferent to its engineering quality. If I were to own a luxury car, I'd want to know its engineering is rock-solid first and foremost. I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. Maybe that's just a techie thing, though. Volvo has been noto…

Many luxury car shoppers are not that concerned with reliability since they plan on only owning the car for a few years. 3 year leases are common and even those who buy a vehicle outright may trade in long before reliability becomes a real concern.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#33

Post by superuser2 »

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #25
superuser2 wrote: post #10

Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totally indifferent to its engineering quality. If I were to own a luxury car, I'd want to know its engineering is rock-solid first and foremost. I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. Maybe that's just a techie thing, though. Volvo has been noto…

Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience. It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much…

Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#34

Post by cmurf »

mikeash wrote: post #30
cmurf wrote: post #17

Buy used. If you have a healthy budget, give it to a shop for an overhaul/rebuild, new upholstery, paint, etc. That'll still cost less than new, and no computer b.s.

No computer BS, and none of the safety improvements made in the intervening time. I don't understand why some people say that they prefer older cars because they're afraid the computers in newer ones will get them killed. Cars are overall much safer. Buy your older car, and sure, the computers won't kill you, but if and when you do crash it may well kill you where you could have walked away from it in a newer car.

I'm not afraid the computer will get me killed. I'm also not afraid other drivers are going to get me killed. I agree the cars a much safer than 30 years ago. By older car I'm thinking something 15 years old or newer, so they still have computers in them, they still have most modern safety features, but they don't have full blown OS's with the most craptastic manufacturer proprietary UI's known to man that never get updated and never will be updated.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#35

Post by superuser2 »

cmurf wrote: post #17

Buy used. If you have a healthy budget, give it to a shop for an overhaul/rebuild, new upholstery, paint, etc. That'll still cost less than new, and no computer b.s.

You're going to have to go back quite a while (pre ABS, pre airbags) to find a car with no engine computer.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#36

Post by mikeash »

cmurf wrote: post #34
mikeash wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No computer BS, and none of the safety improvements made in the intervening time. I don't understand why some people say that they prefer older cars because they're afraid the computers in newer ones will get them killed. Cars are overall much safer. Buy your older car, and sure, the computers won't kill you, but if and when you do crash it may well kill you where you could have walked away from it in a newer car.

I'm not afraid the computer will get me killed. I'm also not afraid other drivers are going to get me killed. I agree the cars a much safer than 30 years ago. By older car I'm thinking something 15 years old or newer, so they still have computers in them, they still have most modern safety features, but they don't have full blown OS's with the most craptastic manufacturer proprietary UI's known to man that never get…

OK, given the context of a safety recall I thought you were making a statement about safety.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#37

Post by cmurf »

mikeash wrote: post #36
cmurf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not afraid the computer will get me killed. I'm also not afraid other drivers are going to get me killed. I agree the cars a much safer than 30 years ago. By older car I'm thinking something 15 years old or newer, so they still have computers in them, they still have most modern safety features, but they don't have full blown OS's with the most craptastic manufacturer proprietary UI's known to man that never get…

OK, given the context of a safety recall I thought you were making a statement about safety.

The safety potential, I recognize. In this case it's an inconvenience. And this transitional period we're in right now where cars can have major bugs like this, but still aren't autonomous (probably a good thing, in the context of this particular flaw) is something I personally don't want to be involved in. I understand the process won't be free of flaws, and good that Volvo isn't downplaying or hiding the issue. When the software is mature enough that it's not needing constant updates, and we're not concerned about needing an SLA for 10 or 20 or 30 years to keep car computers secure... OK fuck, I'm screwed it's going to be a long time before I can get a new car.

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#38

Post by brewdad »

superuser2 wrote: post #33
quicklyfrozen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience. It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much…

Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?

How can you tell who leased and who bought his vehicle as you cruise down the freeway?

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#39

Post by Outdoorsman »

superuser2 wrote: post #33
quicklyfrozen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience. It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much…

Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?

It's simply that no one can tell whether or not you own the car, just by seeing you drive by in it, or seeing it in your driveway...

The true "equity" in a great number of cars on the road--those financed, or leased, is held by a bank, institution or business....

Remember the old false-fronted buildings in the frontier towns portrayed in numerous westerns...?

The wherewithal of those business was likely much smaller than the storefront indicated...

In other words, some consumers will go to great lengths to project "success" when in actuality they haven't quite "made it"...leasing, even renting, a luxury car for that reason is quite common around the world...

Re: Volvo recalls 59,000 cars over software fault

#40

Post by mikeash »

cmurf wrote: post #37
mikeash wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, given the context of a safety recall I thought you were making a statement about safety.

The safety potential, I recognize. In this case it's an inconvenience. And this transitional period we're in right now where cars can have major bugs like this, but still aren't autonomous (probably a good thing, in the context of this particular flaw) is something I personally don't want to be involved in. I understand the process won't be free of flaws, and good that Volvo isn't downplaying or hiding the issue. Whe…

The inconvenience seems pretty small compared to the inconvenience of maintaining an old car. Required updates at the dealer aren't exactly common, and in day-to-day use you can mostly ignore the systems if you don't want to use them.
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