Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online • Hacker News Board

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#31

Post by jfoutz » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 12:50 AM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #29

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Excitingly enough, UNESCO and IDA are helping fund cameras for 3D scanning of cultural heritage sites in Syria to preserve them in the event ISIS/ISIL destroys them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_herita... "After the Palmyra temple's destruction in August 2015, the Institute for Digital Archaeology (IDA) announced plans to establish a digital record of historical sites and artifacts threatened…

As optimistic as I am about photogrammetry and other 3D-scanning technology, I'm leery of calling it "preservation" or letting you "recreate" artifacts. It captures shape and texture, but that's all. It's hollow. You can't take a core sample of a 3D scan, you can't X-Ray a 3D scan, you can't smell it or touch it; you can't tell if there's anything inside and you can't carbon-date it. It can't capture how pliable or b…

Of course, the real one will be blown up, sooooooo. Hanging on to the copy of the copy of the copy worked ok for books. it's infinitely better than nothing.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#32

Post by detaro » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

knughit wrote: post #27

Animats wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I anticipate all sorts of crazy digital-rights management battles ahead for 3D objects like this - including art." A 3D scan of an existing object does not create a new copyrighted work under US law. See Meshwerks vs. Toyota . This follows Bridgeman vs. Corel (2D photos don't create a new copyrighted work), which follows the famous Supreme Court decision Feist vs. Rural Telephone (which allowed loading phone directo…

The question is also whether you are allowed to publish a digital copy of a copyrighted sculpture Also, how does Bridgeman square with the reality that photographs are certainly copyrighted (Getty, etc)?

Bridgeman is only about "exact photographic copies", like a 1:1 photograph of a painting. Trying to be as exact as possible doesn't count as creative work and therefore isn't copyrightable, even if it requires time and skill.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#33

Post by bhaak » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:00 AM UTC

cmrx64 wrote: post #25

themartorana wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank goodness for this. The destruction of culturally significant artifacts of such age and importance is incredibly sad to me. At least photography existed before ISIS got here. 3D models are even better. Makes you wonder what else has been destroyed throughout history. Crazy, sad stuff.

In the Star Control II lore, the Ur-Quan (evil invading alien race) have as a condition of surrender the destruction of all structures older than 500 years, to destroy any history of not being subjugated by the Ur-Quan. It's a really interesting and sad thing.

The Ur-Quan masters do it themselves and of course, most of Europe gets blasted and funny enough, also a part of Antarctica.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#34

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:01 AM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #29

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Excitingly enough, UNESCO and IDA are helping fund cameras for 3D scanning of cultural heritage sites in Syria to preserve them in the event ISIS/ISIL destroys them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_herita... "After the Palmyra temple's destruction in August 2015, the Institute for Digital Archaeology (IDA) announced plans to establish a digital record of historical sites and artifacts threatened…

As optimistic as I am about photogrammetry and other 3D-scanning technology, I'm leery of calling it "preservation" or letting you "recreate" artifacts. It captures shape and texture, but that's all. It's hollow. You can't take a core sample of a 3D scan, you can't X-Ray a 3D scan, you can't smell it or touch it; you can't tell if there's anything inside and you can't carbon-date it. It can't capture how pliable or b…

> A high-res scan of the Mona Lisa can't actually be used to recreate the Mona Lisa. Short of nanoscale replicators, there's information missing.

Baby steps. 100 years ago, I'm sure no one considered 3D scanning and 3D printing might ever exist. The next 100 years are going to be just as fun.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#35

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

Redundancy is a good thing.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#36

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #21

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Excitingly enough, UNESCO and IDA are helping fund cameras for 3D scanning of cultural heritage sites in Syria to preserve them in the event ISIS/ISIL destroys them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_herita... "After the Palmyra temple's destruction in August 2015, the Institute for Digital Archaeology (IDA) announced plans to establish a digital record of historical sites and artifacts threatened…

Thank goodness for this. The destruction of culturally significant artifacts of such age and importance is incredibly sad to me. At least photography existed before ISIS got here. 3D models are even better. Makes you wonder what else has been destroyed throughout history. Crazy, sad stuff.

[deleted]

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#37

Post by marcosscriven » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:06 AM UTC

It does seem a shame to me that such things are often prohibited from being photographed, at least without a flash.

I do recall a few years ago the British Museum in London hosted a few dozen Terracotta Warriors. I snapped a photo only to be told not to. When I asked why, they said it was copyrighted!

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#38

Post by mrfusion » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:07 AM UTC

aresant wrote: post #5

I anticipate all sorts of crazy digital-rights management battles ahead for 3D objects like this - including art - but even more on likenesses / people / etc. Roughly a year ago I bought a structure scanner (1) for my iPad, scanned in friends, imported to unity and let them walk around themselves in the Oculus DK2. That was a very cool experience but an unexpected result was how many people asked me to delete the sca…

Wow I didn't know a product like that existed. How well does it work? Could I scan the inside of classic cars with it and recreate in Vr? What about a room?

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#39

Post by roywiggins » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:09 AM UTC

jfoutz wrote: post #31

roywiggins wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As optimistic as I am about photogrammetry and other 3D-scanning technology, I'm leery of calling it "preservation" or letting you "recreate" artifacts. It captures shape and texture, but that's all. It's hollow. You can't take a core sample of a 3D scan, you can't X-Ray a 3D scan, you can't smell it or touch it; you can't tell if there's anything inside and you can't carbon-date it. It can't capture how pliable or b…

Of course, the real one will be blown up, sooooooo. Hanging on to the copy of the copy of the copy worked ok for books. it's infinitely better than nothing.

There's an awful lot of value in a particular book-as-object that you lose in a copy, especially in pre-Gutenburg manuscripts:

- What script was it written in?

- How was it bound?

- What shape and size is it?

- Huge roomy margins or small tiny margins?

- Is it actually a palimpsest with another text underneath?

- Who owned it?

- How old is it?

And so on. If someone just writes down the text and burns the book, you've preserved the text but thrown away an awful lot about the people that produced and used the book.

A 3D scan might preserve 100% of aspect A, but 0% of aspect B, in which case it's exactly as bad as no scan if what you care about is aspect B.

Re: Artists Covertly Scan Bust of Nefertiti and Release the Data for Free Online

#40

Post by flycaliguy » Sun, Feb 21, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

aresant wrote: post #5

I anticipate all sorts of crazy digital-rights management battles ahead for 3D objects like this - including art - but even more on likenesses / people / etc. Roughly a year ago I bought a structure scanner (1) for my iPad, scanned in friends, imported to unity and let them walk around themselves in the Oculus DK2. That was a very cool experience but an unexpected result was how many people asked me to delete the sca…

A worst-case-scenario discussion with some colleges brought to mind some invasive future applications of this tech. For example, what if you could film somebody in public long enough for a recreation of their nude body to be generated? Doesn't seem far fetched. What if you could scan the likeness of somebody and then import them into some sort of pornographic virtual reality...

It's enough to make you wonder what kind of lockdown there will be on software distribution (as seen with Google Glass). Something like a "rape simulator" might generate the sort of headline outrage to push public support for comprehensive surveillance of usage.