Anti-bullying program focused on bystanders helps students who need it most • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-bullying program focused on bystanders helps students who need it most

#31

Post by cmurf » Tue, Feb 16, 2016, 8:56 PM UTC

alanwatts wrote: post #15

The way this problem is framed is as if bullying were limited to school children and should only be addressed within the narrow scope of the classroom. The reality is bullies grow up and becomes adults and help run society. You cannot separate children from the influences of society at large. Bully: a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker. synonyms:persecutor, oppressor, tyrant,…

Thrasýmachos has a more interesting take on might makes right. It's hard to tell if he's a proponent, or if he's arguing it into the ground to be buried.

A kid who's a bully usually is bullied by someone else. They're angry for a reason.

Re: Anti-bullying program focused on bystanders helps students who need it most

#32

Post by cmurf » Tue, Feb 16, 2016, 9:05 PM UTC

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #27

bediger4000 wrote: post #3

"Many K-12 school efforts to reduce bullying have proven not very effective, leading educators to wonder what bullying prevention approach works best." Could that be because the efforts have focused on having students, mostly those not subject to bullying, stop the bullying? My view is that only teachers and administrators can stop it, and further that teachers and administrators have informal policies that actually…

> Teachers and administrators know who the bullies are, they just don't do anything at all to stop them, You can't stop them, not even teachers and administrators. Bullying is psychologically tormenting as much as physical. Even the "physical" can't be stopped... punished afterward, but the deterrence effect is minimal and by that time the damage is already done anyway. Next year it will be a different bully that has…

A big part of school is about creating worker bees. Do what you're told. Collaboration is cheating. Respect for authority is given, not earned. Cultural and national indoctrination mandatory. It's all rather tribal.

It gets a bit more interesting in high-school, but that relaxation I think only helps to solidify the worker bee concept, with this hard work comes some faux-freedom. Most of college is an extension of this but with a lot more tolerance for edge cases to pick alternate and innovative paths.

Re: Anti-bullying program focused on bystanders helps students who need it most

#33

Post by alexashka » Tue, Feb 16, 2016, 10:24 PM UTC

ticviking wrote: post #28

alexashka wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. Where I grew up (Russia), those who excelled were put into classes where you were challenged. To give a simple example: when I came to Canada, I was in grade 7. I didn't learn a single new math concept until grade 9, where we spent the entire semester learning 'slope' which I got the hang of within a week. That's the Canadian school program being 3 years behind in 5 years. A disaster, and I'm not that sma…

So I think you're onto something with moving kids to where they will be challenged in school. Systemically it keeps everyone engaged in the task of learning and I wish we would adopt it in the states. I don't think that would stop bullying, only reduce particular kinds of it. Bullying serves the purpose of enforcing social norms. Putting people in a situation where ability is less of a way to break norms will reduce…

Yeah, I feel your pain.

There is no way anyone can eliminate bullying completely as you yourself mention - nor do I think it to be a worthwhile pursuit.

Some amount of friction is good.

Being weird is definitely going to be a problem - I have a buddy who to this day (almost 30) has trouble relating to people and he ranks it as the number one challenge in his life. His parents could afford to put him in sports but didn't think it was a good idea...

You mention how you guys couldn't afford to put you in a sports club. To that I'd say two things: one is that sports should absolutely be free the same way school is free and two - it's a bummer that your parents had kids and couldn't afford these things.

To bring it full circle - it boils down to the parents so often, doesn't it? If your parents could afford to have you participate in extra-curricular activities that you excel in, so much of this childhood angst would be alleviated.

It breaks my heart to hear the shit my friends have gone through and how incompetent so many parents are. The only silver lining is that hopefully - you'll recognize how to make sure your own kids don't have the same difficulties and as a result - the world's a better place :)

Re: Anti-bullying program focused on bystanders helps students who need it most

#34

Post by bediger4000 » Tue, Feb 23, 2016, 2:53 PM UTC

rauljara wrote: post #12

bediger4000 wrote: post #3

"Many K-12 school efforts to reduce bullying have proven not very effective, leading educators to wonder what bullying prevention approach works best." Could that be because the efforts have focused on having students, mostly those not subject to bullying, stop the bullying? My view is that only teachers and administrators can stop it, and further that teachers and administrators have informal policies that actually…

"Could that be because the efforts have focused on having students, mostly those not subject to bullying, stop the bullying?" The article didn't go into a whole lot of detail on the other less effective programs. But it did talk about how this program was effective precisely because it focused on students instead of focusing on punishment[1]. [1] I realize punishment isn't the only way to get teachers and administrat…

Oddly, the bullying issue in schools is the only place where US society officially tries to focus on victims and cooperative behavior, rather than stringent rules and punishment.

As I said above, I think that punishment could prevent bullying, and that teachers and admins just don't want to. There's all kinds of goofy, illogical rules in place about "drugs" and "weapons" and other "safety" issues, where the faculty, staff and admins aren't afraid to punish instantly. Those punishments are justified more or less by "common sense", so why isn't bullying punished?