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Militia Radio Frequencies

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Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#31

Post by twothamendment »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22
seangrant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget these people had every intention to use those weapons against humans. This isn't some guns club hanging out.

Arguably, they intended to use them to defend themselves if they were attacked. (By humans, yes.) They were not hunting people down and assaulting them. That being said, they were looking to defend themselves while illegally occupying a federal facility... but the particulars of that situation don't really reflect on the choice of weapon.

I prefer to call mine an anti-assault weapon. I don't have any need or plans to assault anyone, but I may have a need to defend against someone who'd like to assault me.

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#32

Post by jonathankoren »

zekevermillion wrote: post #12

These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff. The Army surplus look, radios with whip antennae, etc., is fun. But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. But I guess it's hard to keep morale up if you just…

> These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff.

Hear. Hear. The AR-15 segment of gun culture is essentially cosplay. For example, the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. Too powerful for drywall.) and actually illegal to hunt with because the bullets are literally too small to bring down game.[1] However, you look like a fucking action movie star. Tactical vests, "every day carry" trauma kits, throat mics, body armor, etc. There's no practical reason for any of these, other than the owner wants to play dress up. Businesses know this. Why else would say armor manufacturer AR5000 unveil a Boba Fett helmet[2].

[1] http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/campfire/are-assault-ri... [2] http://io9.gizmodo.com/check-out-this-boba-fett-inspired-tac...

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#33

Post by davidw »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22
seangrant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget these people had every intention to use those weapons against humans. This isn't some guns club hanging out.

Arguably, they intended to use them to defend themselves if they were attacked. (By humans, yes.) They were not hunting people down and assaulting them. That being said, they were looking to defend themselves while illegally occupying a federal facility... but the particulars of that situation don't really reflect on the choice of weapon.

> They were not hunting people down and assaulting them.

Not with the guns, and not physically, much. But they most certainly were threatening people, according to the FBI complaint against them:

"The person with Ritzheimer told the woman he knows what kind of car she drives and he was going to follow her home and burn her house down, according to the complaint."

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#34

Post by arca_vorago »

I find it unusual that there is only passing mention of Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) and frequency-hopping code division multiple access (FH-CDMA), which by themselves do have some issues, but combined with encryption like KY-57 or KY-58+ they can be pretty hard. Since that is some of what the US military uses, and militias are largely comprised of former military, I would expect to see more PRC119's and similar in the article, but don't. I wonder why?

edit: found my own answer in the article. "The average militia individual can’t afford the $7,500+ price tag of a 5 watt VHF HT radio that has high levels of encryption combined with frequency hopping capability; anything less than that (such as DMR or P25) is easily intercepted and decrypted in realtime."

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#35

Post by seangrant »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22
seangrant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget these people had every intention to use those weapons against humans. This isn't some guns club hanging out.

Arguably, they intended to use them to defend themselves if they were attacked. (By humans, yes.) They were not hunting people down and assaulting them. That being said, they were looking to defend themselves while illegally occupying a federal facility... but the particulars of that situation don't really reflect on the choice of weapon.

You don't have to assault someone for your weapon to become an "assault weapon". A semi-auto pistol grip rifle is an assault weapon. Especially when the clear purpose of them having these weapons are to be used in combat.

No it is not a defense to say that they are defending themselves. These people illegally encroached property that was not theirs.

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#36

Post by Aloha »

twothamendment wrote: post #29

Interesting read, but it almost paints anyone who owns a Baofeng as a terrorist. It does do a great job of showing how lame it is to think that those radios will help in a standoff like that. If the government was going to go in, you can bet the first thing they'd do is jam those cheap radios. For anyone interested in ham radio, there isn't a better place to start. Without these cheap, not-as-good-as-something-that-c…

In my opinion the Baofeng isn't a very good radio (poor build quality, poor performing RF deck, bad documentation and software support), and there are better inexpensive options out there - most surplus commercial radio gear is around the same price with a better build quality - and for those with some money to spend, you can pick up surplus XTS3000 with DES-XL (or DES-OFB) for under 250 bucks ea, add another 3-800 for a KVL and you have a somewhat hard to crack Digital (P25) encrypted radio system.

The Motorola iDEN handset DirecTalk feature is also a great option for comms up to about a mile, no encryption, so its more of a security thru obscurity system (same with the Motorola DTR series of radios, which are conceptually identical to the iDEN handset feature - down to power output even - I think the difference is message format and codec IMBE vs VSLEP or AMBE), because of the nature of the beast unless you know its DirecTalk, its unlikely you would be able to figure out and find it either.

I've long used surplus Motorola or Kenwood gear in my car and for handhelds - GP300's, XTS's, Spectra (for the car) and before that a Syntor X (which had one of the hottest receivers I've ever seen in a mobile) - I myself have been licensed since 1996.

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#37

Post by [deleted] »

golergka wrote: post #15
zekevermillion wrote: post #12

These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff. The Army surplus look, radios with whip antennae, etc., is fun. But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. But I guess it's hard to keep morale up if you just…

> But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. It's very effective indeed, if you disregard all problems with international law and basic human morals. It's a tactic that have been very successful for Hamas in recent years, for example. Fighting in civilian clothing means that (1) your adversaries will kill much more civilians, honestly…

[deleted]

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#38

Post by davidw »

golergka wrote: post #15
zekevermillion wrote: post #12

These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff. The Army surplus look, radios with whip antennae, etc., is fun. But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. But I guess it's hard to keep morale up if you just…

> But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. It's very effective indeed, if you disregard all problems with international law and basic human morals. It's a tactic that have been very successful for Hamas in recent years, for example. Fighting in civilian clothing means that (1) your adversaries will kill much more civilians, honestly…

> Idealist militants, on the other hand, who are concerned with well-being of civilians they are fighting

Going beyond the contradiction in that sentence, there appear to be a lot of quite diverse people in some of these groups, some of whom might care deeply about the well-being of others, and others who are simply spoiling for a fight. Some people in this latest event in Oregon were very much focused on intimidating locals who happened to work for the federal government in some capacity, or who happened to be on the 'wrong side'.

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#39

Post by VLM »

Its interesting that the article has nothing specifically militia related. In that its just a list of point to point radios anyone can use.

There probably are characteristics or features that would appeal to anti-government activists on either the left or the right, but the article didn't mention them.

For example, if you want communications in the deep mountains for hiking or camping, its not a bad "buyers guide".

Interestingly it does side step using actual military surplus radios. Probably because the mil-surp radios us Ham Radio guys use are either too expensive or too antique to be of use. I have a nice R-392 (a "mobile" R-390). Its not exactly tacti-cool, LOL. For about a quarter century I've been planning on buying a PRC-77 to work ham radio 6 meter FM... in my infinite spare time. I like the 6m band although I've almost exclusively worked weak signal SSB.

Re: Militia Radio Frequencies

#40

Post by Aloha »

golergka wrote: post #15
zekevermillion wrote: post #12

These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff. The Army surplus look, radios with whip antennae, etc., is fun. But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. But I guess it's hard to keep morale up if you just…

> But in any scenario where militia were up against organized force, I would think they should try to blend into the population. It's very effective indeed, if you disregard all problems with international law and basic human morals. It's a tactic that have been very successful for Hamas in recent years, for example. Fighting in civilian clothing means that (1) your adversaries will kill much more civilians, honestly…

A quote comes to mind - "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." or in more polite terms - "One man's hero is another man's villain."

In war, what is right, or what is wrong on a decision by decision question, is often overshadowed by the meta moral questions of the broader context.

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