Live data from Hacker News

Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm at it: http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-is-the-death-...

This is a lot of butthurt for getting smacked down for a stupid joke. Let it go. Save your jokes for reddit. Edit: slur? WTF?

save the slurs for reddit too

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#33
The results from ketamine are very impressive, however there is still the possibility that it is due to the placebo effect:

"Consistent with all of the published randomized, placebo-controlled studies with ketamine, we also found short-lived perceptual disturbances26,49,50; such symptoms could have affected study blind. Hence, limitations in preserving study blind may have biased patient reporting by diminishing placebo effects, thereby potentially confounding results. One potential study design in future studies with ketamine might be to include an active comparator such as intravenous amphetamine (a dopamine agonist), which also produces psychotogenic effects."

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=66819...

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#34

Do you have to take it via an IV? Can taking it orally have similar benefits? I'm just curious why you need an IV.

You'd probably have to insufflate (snort) it. That's the recreational method for most users, at least.

Can't you just take a pill?

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#35
So, the ~75% efficacy rate is seemingly great news for those suffering from depression. However, what stuck out to me was the reported synaptogenic effect that ketamine is thought to have.

An interesting study would posit that ketamine could potentially be used as a nootropic. If the synaptogenic effect is strong enough, could it not be used to restore brain function after head trauma, stroke, to treat cognitive decline with age, ect?

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#36

Do you have to take it via an IV? Can taking it orally have similar benefits? I'm just curious why you need an IV.

When you administer it to horses, it's also done IV but using a syringe. It may not necessarily be done using a bag and a drip.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#37
post #5

While this is undeniably impressive and hopeful, it should be noted that these are short-term affects. The article mentions this: "So far, there is no evidence of addiction at the low dose in which infusions are delivered. Ketamine does, however, have one major limitation: Its relief is temporary. Clinical trials at NIMH have found that relapse usually occurs about a week after a single infusion." It then goes on to…

i was depressed for a very long time. wasn't enjoying life and picked up some bad habits along the way. But now am a lot better. I think what finally helped me out of depression was to hangout with friends a lot and living with friends which distracted me away from my negative thoughts and with I actively trying to control my thought flow, cut negative thoughts out n doing something like following upon on something interesting, researching the way world works etc. It was a huge improvement. It was hard to get rid of bad habits i picked up while depressed, including laziness. Improved a lot in last 8 months. Am not depressed anymore. Negative internal dialogues too are gone. It was like a thought virus, which i finally got rid off. I hope my experience will be of some help for you.

I didn't try therapy or any medication.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#38
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of butthurt for getting smacked down for a stupid joke. Let it go. Save your jokes for reddit. Edit: slur? WTF?

save the slurs for reddit too

Look, kid, you must be new here so I'll explain what's going on. HN frowns upon commentary that does not add to the discussion, e.g., jokes.

In this case your joke was dismissive of a drug that holds promise for a lot of people (including some that I know). It has a stigma that it has to overcome to be used medically and your joke just piled on the stigma with an implicit snobbery that practically begged for a comeuppance. There was no /s appended so it could only be taken at face value.

You got down votes and double-downed by saying it worth it. Was it? The community disapproved of your comment and you cheekily said, in effect, "fuck you, I'd do it again"

Then you tried to school me on the fact that alcohol abuse occurs all over the world, as well as drug abuse in the States. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm well aware of it.

You called me a sap and then accuse me of a slur? For saying you were acting butthurt? You were. We've all done it, so I claim no moral superiority here.

And finally, to return to my initial reply to you: reports have shown that binge drinking is a health issue but it's tolerated because it's the one recreational drug that is legal. Perhaps if cannabis, MDMA, K and others were legal than people might be able to enjoy themselves with less harm.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#39
post #5

While this is undeniably impressive and hopeful, it should be noted that these are short-term affects. The article mentions this: "So far, there is no evidence of addiction at the low dose in which infusions are delivered. Ketamine does, however, have one major limitation: Its relief is temporary. Clinical trials at NIMH have found that relapse usually occurs about a week after a single infusion." It then goes on to…

I got Ketamine at a psychiatric clinic. It really did make me feel strangely relieved, and basically immediately. Reminded me somehow of vacation days when I was a child. The feeling starts fading away once they stop the drip, and it's back to normal after a couple of hours.

Since they don't give out pills (not sure if war-on-drugs bullshit or actually dangerous), it's pointless. You're monitored for half an hour by a physician, and the drip gets done by an anesthetist, and if I remember correctly they insisted I be carted back to my room instead of walking. It's also only done on in-patients. So it was completely impractical as a treatment and had no long-lasting effect at all.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So however you find it, just a couple of hours of, say, having a conversation where you don't feel like the worst loser in the universe and the nadir of civilization, that just shows you something about life. It really would have been nice for me while i was a child. yes. i should have been given ketamine as a child. my depression was so bad for most of my life that i could count the days where i didn't feel depres…

You write as if it's all past tense for you. How did you end up getting better?

the past tense was because i was talking about being a child. i'm still depressive although today is possibly the best i've felt in months. today is good because i've been working on improving my mental hygiene and it's starting to pay off. it's been a long project. i'd say that the very first step i took towards taking care of my mental health was 2.5 years ago. it's difficult to summarize what's happened since then, and introspection is nowhere near as accurate as it feels. i won't try. the first step for me was admitting to my parents and my doctor that i was depressed. but was that the first step? how long did i prepare myself for that? who knows.

getting into a romantic relationship was difficult for me. even after a year together, i found myself paranoid about my partner. did they actually like me? i felt like they were humoring me every time we did anything together, that it was a burden to be around me. finally trusting them, finally trusting that they liked me was a gradual process. first i had to understand the idea intellectually, and only then could i try to internalize it. i'm still working on it, but there are days where i feel very happy to be me, because someone out there loves to spend time with me. learning to trust my romantic relationship is a microcosm of learning to trust all of my social relationships and my place in the world.

my latest improvement to my mental hygiene is to keep a journal. i have a habit of letting my head crowd up with thoughts which leaves me anxious, confused, and agitated. writing things down helps me clear thoughts out. i've realized that suppressing thoughts does not work. inhibitory patterns like that are the root of my depression (i'm sure everyone has a different root. some might have a fundamentally unassailable root and need drug therapy). having a truly clear head once in a while is a wonderful, wonderful experience.

my favorite books to read to keep my mind healthy are the Dao De Jing and the Zhuangzi. I prefer Ursula K. Le Guin's rendition of the former and the translation of the latter by Burton Watson. there are passages in these beautiful works that can pull me right out of a depressive episode, or at least comfort me intellectually while i weather it. there's something deeply and mysteriously comforting in their lines. these books have a way of putting thoughts in my head that push out the invasive, repetitive, agitating, stressful thoughts and let me breathe.

i'm not depressed right now, but maybe tonight, or tomorrow. i don't mind. i like myself, even my depressed self who hates themself. they know they like themself; they used to feel guilty about hating themself and guilty about being depressed, but they don't feel guilty anymore. it makes it easier to cope. they and i know how to keep ourself healthy better than we did before. it's a lifetime endeavor, learning your own nature, loving your own nature, letting yourself be the way you are. i feel like this post is very disorganized, scatterbrained, incoherent. i cannot begin to touch upon all of my experiences that have improved me. even if i could, what good is it if i can't transfer that deeply personal wisdom to others? the words don't carry any of the power of the signified.

'mental hygiene'. i think this is the key concept to understand. it's different for everyone. keeping physically clean keeps away physical disease. keeping mentally clean keeps away mental disease. you can still get sick, but you'll get sick less, and you'll get better faster. you may even get better for the first time in your life.

P.S. i also did a lot of acid but that's reckless. it's a good way to scar yourself. it's also a good way to shove your brain outside of its normal operational range. both have happened to me. i believe that one day there will be a drug gentler than lsd or psilocybin that will be used in controlled therapeutic settings. if you need to escape the inescapable, these drugs will do it.

Post reply on HN