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Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

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Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#31

Post by kwadwon »

amazon_not wrote: post #22
sithadmin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? I do, but that's mostly because I travel a fair amount, and have some indirect professional exposure to international trade compliance/regulations. That's also precisely why I would probably never participate in a scheme like this, especially when travelling to countries with flaky civil or human rights records (in this case, Nigeria in pa…

While not trying to give offense, this service can easily be seen as taking advantage of the desperate, uninformed and/or gullible. For your sake I hope you are very explicitly informing your couriers about the risks associated with carrying parcels for you and that you are seeking and getting informed consent. Any other case and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

No offense taking. You bring up very valid points and concerns and they are all things that we've considered and are working on. We have answers to some, and there are still a lot of questions we don't have clear cut answers to but the fastest way to have something safe and secure for people to use is for us to expose all the cracks and quickly fix it. We appreciate all your questions amazon_not. Please keep it coming.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#32

Post by dragonwriter »

tcokoro wrote: post #21
amazon_not wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What circumstances? By default this is the case for every delivery. As a courier I would never accept a parcel unless it came with a cash advance to cover all import duties and taxes.

We haven't had a traveler yet that has had to pay for import duties or taxes.

Ghana, like most countries, seems to charge import duties on all imports, with exceptions for narrow sets of preferred imports. Also like most countries, Ghana exempts certain items for personal use of the traveler from this. [0]

It really seems like the only way your couriers (who you refer to as "travelers") could avoid import duties in general -- I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural parts, fishing gear, and other exempt categories of items -- is if the imported goods are being misrepresented as personal use items.

Nigeria seems to have generally similar rule exempting personal effects [1] but requiring import duty (and import paperwork!) for all other imports [2].

Again, it sounds a lot like what is going on is technically smuggling by misrepresenting imports-for-trade as personal use items.

[0] see generally, http://www.gra.gov.gh/docs/info/customs_guide.pdf

[1] https://www.customs.gov.ng/Stakeholders/passengers_concessio...

[2] https://www.customs.gov.ng/Guidelines/Destination_Inspection...

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#33

Post by tcokoro »

amazon_not wrote: post #29
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the item being delivered is over a certain value we'd have the shoppers (in Ghana or Nigeria) cover duties and taxes. Isn't it usual for countries to charge import duties on any goods (regardless of value) brought for trade (including for delivery to a purchaser) rather than for personal use, but allowing some exemptions for personal use? Is the "over a certain value" here an indication that the business model h…

Are you providing your couriers with any documentation stating that they are acting as your transport agents in shipping parcels into the country in an attempt to shield them from any liability? Do you provide all the necessary documentation for importing and clearing customs and/or do you train your couriers on how to perform these duties? Do you provide couriers with legal representation in-country and will you cov…

We currently do not but these are things that we are looking into as we get feedback from current deliveries and quickly iterate. We are open and transparent and let the travelers know what things Shypmate covers and what we don't.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#34

Post by amazon_not »

denna91 wrote: post #27
amazon_not wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not trying to give offense, this service can easily be seen as taking advantage of the desperate, uninformed and/or gullible. For your sake I hope you are very explicitly informing your couriers about the risks associated with carrying parcels for you and that you are seeking and getting informed consent. Any other case and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Hey amazon_not, of course there are a number of kinks to be worked out re the security and legality of the shypmate service, and hopefully they can do so in a timely fashion. However, as a resident Nigerian I can attest to the dire need for such a service. On various occasions I have had to wait months on end until someone I am acquainted to, however loosely, is coming back from the states for me to buy items that I…

In this instance, a timely fashion means you sort out the security and legal issues before you start shipping.

I don't care how much anybody wants or needs this service. If you mess this up you will completely fubar a person's life.

You do NOT start a service like this by winging it. You start it by talking to lawyers, lots of lawyers, and government officials. You dot your i's and cross your t's and then when you have a complete handle on the issues you start executing.

You'd have done better joining a law firm and not a startup accelerator.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#35

Post by amazon_not »

tcokoro wrote: post #33
amazon_not wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you providing your couriers with any documentation stating that they are acting as your transport agents in shipping parcels into the country in an attempt to shield them from any liability? Do you provide all the necessary documentation for importing and clearing customs and/or do you train your couriers on how to perform these duties? Do you provide couriers with legal representation in-country and will you cov…

We currently do not but these are things that we are looking into as we get feedback from current deliveries and quickly iterate. We are open and transparent and let the travelers know what things Shypmate covers and what we don't.

Please stop before somebody gets hurt.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#36

Post by seanccox »

You may consider trying this with Turkey, as well. Informally, friends and family do this kind of thing pretty regularly, and it was also common practice among colleagues at my company's Istanbul office.

Though it obviously doesn't offer the protections of a more formal arrangement, there is a Facebook group now to support connecting people – https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#37

Post by amazon_not »

dragonwriter wrote: post #32
tcokoro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't had a traveler yet that has had to pay for import duties or taxes.

Ghana, like most countries, seems to charge import duties on all imports, with exceptions for narrow sets of preferred imports. Also like most countries, Ghana exempts certain items for personal use of the traveler from this. [0] It really seems like the only way your couriers (who you refer to as "travelers") could avoid import duties in general -- I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural pa…

> I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural parts, fishing gear, and other exempt categories of items -- is if the imported goods are being misrepresented as personal use items.

Yeah, not so much anything in those categories.

" So far, people have been using Shypmate for shoes, weaves, iPhones, laptops, jewelry and other products."

You know that part where I said, somebody is going to see the inside of an African jail cell....

If you keep this up, I bet you are going to see the insides of some American jail cells too, as you are either party to illegal acts or encourage/facilitate such. IANAL, so YMMV, but you have been warned.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#38

Post by amazon_not »

seanccox wrote: post #36

You may consider trying this with Turkey, as well. Informally, friends and family do this kind of thing pretty regularly, and it was also common practice among colleagues at my company's Istanbul office. Though it obviously doesn't offer the protections of a more formal arrangement, there is a Facebook group now to support connecting people – https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/

Is Turkey any more lenient on smugglers than Ghana or Nigeria?

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#39

Post by fillskills »

tcokoro wrote: post #33
amazon_not wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you providing your couriers with any documentation stating that they are acting as your transport agents in shipping parcels into the country in an attempt to shield them from any liability? Do you provide all the necessary documentation for importing and clearing customs and/or do you train your couriers on how to perform these duties? Do you provide couriers with legal representation in-country and will you cov…

We currently do not but these are things that we are looking into as we get feedback from current deliveries and quickly iterate. We are open and transparent and let the travelers know what things Shypmate covers and what we don't.

Glad that you are being honest and upfront. Hope this succeeds and brings more liquidity to the shipping market.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#40

Post by amazon_not »

kwadwon wrote: post #31
amazon_not wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not trying to give offense, this service can easily be seen as taking advantage of the desperate, uninformed and/or gullible. For your sake I hope you are very explicitly informing your couriers about the risks associated with carrying parcels for you and that you are seeking and getting informed consent. Any other case and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

No offense taking. You bring up very valid points and concerns and they are all things that we've considered and are working on. We have answers to some, and there are still a lot of questions we don't have clear cut answers to but the fastest way to have something safe and secure for people to use is for us to expose all the cracks and quickly fix it. We appreciate all your questions amazon_not. Please keep it comin…

Now, I haven't even been trying to poke holes in your operation, but even with this cursory overview of your business, it's obvious to a mere layperson that your whole setup has enough holes to drive a truck full of C4 through.

I urge you to stop and halt all operations, before somebody gets into trouble, has legal issues or get sued.

Only when you are reasonably sure from a legal and regulatory perspective that there are to lingering or contentious issues should you proceed.

Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. This is not one of them.

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