> Anecdote: I asked a certain 6-year-old child “how much is 15 and 15”and she quickly answered, “I think it’s 30.” I asked how she figured that out so fast and she replied, “Well, everyone knows that 16 and 16 is 32, so then I subtracted the extra two 1’s.” Wait, is this girl some kind of base-2 native?
Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
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Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#32He said all knowledge has a half-life, the time it takes for half of what you know to be redundant or wrong. Math, he said, is the longest, measured in centuries or millennia. One should feel sorry for neuroscientists: they can go to the bathroom and half their knowledge will be out of date.
The only time I spent with him, but both the metaphor and his passion for math will stay with me.
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#33" This child imagined ‘Math’ to be a continuous string of mechanical tasks—an unending prospect of practice and drill. It was hard to convince him that there would not be any more tables in subsequent years" Well, I enjoy maths, but for me my entire mathematical education was always about memorizing tables. It was made worse by the fact that during Polish exams you cannot use advanced calculators(only ones that can d…
A majority of it is memorisation, which makes it both very easy in some respects, and hard in others. I still feel in the end it is a bit useless to learn it in the way we do now, seeing as computers can do it in a fraction of a second.
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#34Math isn't hard, it just doesn't work for those who don't know how to use it. And knowing how to use it means understanding what exactly you are doing. Many students don't bother about what does it mean to do when asked to solve an equation.
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might "just" (not to be little it) be shortcut she has learned, I also used tons of my own shortcuts for answers when I was smaller (read: used to not use calculator). I could do smaller calculations like that fast and when my parents asked how I came up with them and when I answered they didn't believe me.
I think parent wondered how it's possible that she remembered 16+16=32. Children raised on positional decimal arithmetic are "supposed" to figure that 10+10=20 or 20+20=40 and then add/subtract 5+5. Of course it's easier to associate 15 with 16 than with 10 or 20, but the fact that she immediately knew 2·16 and was able to proceed further says something about either her experience with binary arithmetic or some tende…
5xN is easier to remember than 16xN on account of 5 being the smaller number.
2^n is logarithmic whereas 5*n is linear. Arguably, logarithms are not too complicated, even if linear seems to be a degree easier, seeing that the decimal system is also logarithmic as that's a denser representation.
edit: how to enter an aterisk as the multiplication operator sign
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#36> Anecdote: I asked a certain 6-year-old child “how much is 15 and 15”and she quickly answered, “I think it’s 30.” I asked how she figured that out so fast and she replied, “Well, everyone knows that 16 and 16 is 32, so then I subtracted the extra two 1’s.” Wait, is this girl some kind of base-2 native?
As much as I regret that humans don't have 8 fingers at each hand and count in base 16, I think it's more likely that she simply is/knows a computer nerd.
What's 1 and 1? 2.
What's 2 and 2? 4.
What's 4 and 4? 8.
What s 8 and 8? 16.
What's 16 and 16? 32.
That's just five facts.
The game could occur socially between kids. It is natural to ask a question, then take the answer and "up the ante" by re-formulating the answer into a harder question, back into the other child's face!
Do you know 1 plus 1? Ha, two plus two? Oh yeah, how about four plus four, then?
The progression grows quickly, of course, and soon the interrogated subject breaks.
I get beaten at 65536.
Ah, if only "one twenty eight kay" were an accepted answer ... :)
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#37Effects Of Grade-Based Segregation http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/OLPC-2.html
Role Models, Mentors, and Imprimers and Thinking http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/OLPC-3.html
Questioning “General” Education http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/OLPC-4.html
Education and Psychology http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/OLPC-5.html
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#38When you progress from arithmetic to abstract, it hardly gets easier.
Moreover, memorizing. You go from memorizing multiplication tables to other kinds of tables, like tables of equations giving various identities, rows of coefficients in series, and the like. Contents of various kinds of matrices.
The need to be precise and avoid mistakes never goes away. Manipulating a complex math equation is still a form of arithmetic. And it's harder because the underlying semantics means that something which is mechanically correct at the syntax level (easy to check) could actually be meaningless and wrong.
The simplistic notations used in math don't "keep up" with the increasing complexity of what is going on. They just get harder semantics. Notation which looks like multiplication or addition in such and such domain is just "sort of" like it, but, oh, here are the ways in which it isn't.
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#39On the other hand, in a subject like history a student can make good ground towards an answer by laying down fundamental facts and then arguing and reasoning back and forth. Even with minimal facts the student may use some approximate recollection of events and still be able to build an argument. The answer may not be complete, and it may not even be good, but the final outcome has the appearance of being complete, and is often somewhat far from the starting point of nothing.
Humanities subjects use assessments that provide intermediate rewards for a student. Mathematics offer no such respite. That is what I believe makes it intimidating. Even worse, some questions have intermediate solutions look extremely hairy, leading the student to believe that he has gone further away from the solution. In such cases, the intermediate step has punished rather than reward!
Very often suggestions for improving mathematics pedagogy is to make use of "open-ended" questions that admit multiple solutions (as Marvin did here). I believe most of us who make these suggestions understand the effect that traditional maths questions have on a learner. These suggested questions are just like those in history or literature that allow students to have a decent go at it and still make progress.
I don't know if I truly believe in the theory (hypothesis) that memorization makes it extremely boring. Until historical accounts are utilized in some argument (during a performance assessment), these are just empty facts to be memorized. And given the wide range of questions that can be asked in a history exam, the effort involved in memory work in history class seem to be more onerous and less rewarding. Yet I have seen students who are gifted in remembering in detail historical events, capable of building logical structures and narrative flow, and they struggle with maths. So clearly they must have committed a decent amount of effort to memorization - but not in maths but other subjects instead.
In any case, at the higher levels, rote work in mathematics is extremely important: it is very difficult to pursue an advanced class in probability theory without the basic tools picked up in real analysis, for example (that means all your theorems relating to sequences and continuity and functional analysis and so on). That usually involves some amount of "practice", thinking and solving problem sets before moving on to more advanced topics.
Re: Marvin Minsky: What makes mathematics hard to learn? (2008)
#40> Anecdote: I asked a certain 6-year-old child “how much is 15 and 15”and she quickly answered, “I think it’s 30.” I asked how she figured that out so fast and she replied, “Well, everyone knows that 16 and 16 is 32, so then I subtracted the extra two 1’s.” Wait, is this girl some kind of base-2 native?
There is a popular [citation needed] children's song called Inchworm[0] that has a chorus that lists powers of two. Two and two are four Four and four are eight Eight and eight are sixteen Sixteen and sixteen are thirty-two Everyone familiar with this song would know that 16 and 16 are 32. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchworm_%28song%29
2+2=4
4+2=6
6+2=8
...+8=16
...+8=24
...+8=32
Whole lyrics: http://www.teocio.es/portal/entretenimiento/canciones-danzas...