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Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#31

Post by diogenescynic »

aianus wrote: post #17
diogenescynic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>artificial barriers Like citizenship? Do you consider citizenship an artificial barrier? As someone who has worked at tech companies and various law firms in the Silicon Valley, I've seen this story played out several times. Hire Cognizant, TCS, Infosys, Symphony, or some other outsourcing firm and then bring in H-1Bs for an entire department. All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for…

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone What about the guys on H1B's who are now earning 4x more than they were back in India? Are they not people too?

Of course they are people, but I think the US government should be more concerned with protecting its own citizens (voters), not the international community. The US government has an obligation to protect its own citizens above all others.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#32

Post by dangerboysteve »

dustinchilson wrote: post #14
is_it_worth_it_ wrote: post #4

This is the future of the technology industry. There is no fighting it, you cannot fight with the forces of the free market. The salary differential between US based tech workers and foreign workers is too high. If the products you are working on require no innovation or real skill, as is likely with these disney positions, they will be outsourced.

They've done a ton of innovation. http://www.wired.com/2015/03/disney-magicband/

how is RFID use innovative?

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#33

Post by electricblue »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #30

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here. I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers? So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job? Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

Surely not, heaven forfend.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#34

Post by justinhj »

aianus wrote: post #17
diogenescynic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>artificial barriers Like citizenship? Do you consider citizenship an artificial barrier? As someone who has worked at tech companies and various law firms in the Silicon Valley, I've seen this story played out several times. Hire Cognizant, TCS, Infosys, Symphony, or some other outsourcing firm and then bring in H-1Bs for an entire department. All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for…

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone What about the guys on H1B's who are now earning 4x more than they were back in India? Are they not people too?

Since we are forced to live in a world divided into countries, it seems fair to view your own employment position defensively.

If I'm doing a job and I get paid X, then I get laid off, but before I can find a new job I have to train an immigrant from another country to work for 40% less, I think it's quite right to view this from an nationalist point of view.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#35

Post by Fat_Rat »

I'm not against immigration, but the most egregious offense here was having the replacement workers trained by current employees as a stipulation of their severance.

Here's the article that was posted here a little over half a year ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-...

It's nice to see some closure.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#36

Post by diogenescynic »

hatred wrote: post #25
diogenescynic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>artificial barriers Like citizenship? Do you consider citizenship an artificial barrier? As someone who has worked at tech companies and various law firms in the Silicon Valley, I've seen this story played out several times. Hire Cognizant, TCS, Infosys, Symphony, or some other outsourcing firm and then bring in H-1Bs for an entire department. All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for…

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for the 1% at the top Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms.

>Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms.

There's nothing preventing you from applying for a lower LCA level. For example, say you have someone with 15 years of experience in system architecture and they have a Master's degree, and are bilingual, etc. Instead, you apply for a generic software engineer LCA, with a bachelor's degree with 3-5 years of experience. Now isntead of the LCA being approved for $150,000 it's down to $80,000. The immigrant doesn't complain because they're still getting a raise and have a chance to get a Green card. Meanwhile the company is getting to severely underpay (profit!) the worker.

There are all kinds of ways to game the LCA system. Apply for a location in Indiana, then bring the workers to Chicago. Apply for Arizona then bring them to LA. All the tech companies are abusing the system to their own advantage. USCIS is poorly funded and hardly checks on this, if ever.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#37

Post by protomyth »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #30

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here. I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers? So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job? Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

Why yes, http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm states:

  The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers
  who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and
  abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the
  temporary employment of qualified individuals who are
  not otherwise authorized to work in the United States.
Sadly, the top H1-B visa sponsors are: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

You'll not that list is pretty heavy on the "body shop" side.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#39

Post by outworlder »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #30

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here. I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers? So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job? Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

Is, it is the main reason, and the purpose of the visa. It doesn't mean that all companies use it for that purpose, despite what they say.

Note that, according to the article, the laid off people seem to be (relatively speaking) older, with multiple years in the company. It is likely that their salaries are higher than what management would like them to be. My theory makes the prediction that the H1 holders are young. If so, they'll take lower salaries, specially if they aren't aware of living costs. Until they actually move, whatever offer they got must have seemed like a crapton of cash.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#40

Post by refurb »

diogenescynic wrote: post #36
hatred wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for the 1% at the top Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms.

>Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms. There's nothing preventing you from applying for a lower LCA level. For example, say you have someone with 15 years of experience in system architecture and they have a Master's degree, and are bilingual, etc. Instead, you apply for a generic software…

I'm not sure that would work. A part of the H1B approval process is to evaluate the skill level of the applicant, to make sure it lines up with the role the company is applying for.
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