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The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

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Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#31

Post by _ph_ »

zepto wrote: post #3

This is gibberish. The programming tools on the iPad are already quite powerful - far better than those old basic powered micros. There is also no reason to believe that XCode or the equivalent will not come to iOS now that the devices are nearly performant enough. As far as a completely open system like Smalltalk goes - that was a wonderful world which I wish we lived in, but we don't - not because of Apple, but bec…

Apple does not have to open up the whole system - there are some good reasons for limiting the access of applications to the system part of the filesystem and the bare hardware.

However, Apple also very much limits the ability to run e.g. Squeak as an app on IOS, you might run it, but not download source code over the internet. And if you read the Anandtech iPad Pro test you can see how much software is held back by the restrictions on exchanging data between apps.

I am writing this as an Apple user and owner of several IOS devices. IOS was a huge accomplishment in touch UI usability, now it is time to develop the computing part to similar levels.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#32

Post by tejapr »

Indeed.

I am particularly excited about Intel/Micron's 3D xpoint technology, which will be on sale next year. Extrapolating the exponential rate of improvement in storage technologies, I wouldn't be surprised if we had persistent TB storage at SRAM speeds by 2040.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#33

Post by jamesrcole »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #29

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here. Most people are not creative. Its true. There isn't some horde of people who want to program but don't know it yet because they own a tablet instead of a computer. There isn't some horde of musicians that will never know it because their music comes from an mp3 instead of their own instrument. There isn't some horde of artists who will never know it because their i…

> I wish there was this huge hidden demand for a real computer revolution.

When has there ever been a huge hidden demand for revolutionary technological developments?

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#34

Post by scintill76 »

interpol_p wrote: post #28
greggman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XCode is not free. It costs 1 Mac. Given the price difference between the cheapest mac and the cheapest alternatives the cost of XCode something > $0 Posted from a mac

If we follow your argument to the logical extreme there is no such thing as free software because the computer to run such software almost always costs money? (Unless you receive a computer as a gift or it is freely leased; but then that applies to Macs as much as any computer.)

The GNU toolchain (or whatever) is licensed to run on any hardware that you can possibly use it on, which will often be cheaper and more accessible than a Mac. Xcode requires Mac OS, which is only licensed for use on Apple hardware.

You can buy used Apple hardware fairly cheaply, but I think that post still has a point about relative cost.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#35

Post by danenania »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #29

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here. Most people are not creative. Its true. There isn't some horde of people who want to program but don't know it yet because they own a tablet instead of a computer. There isn't some horde of musicians that will never know it because their music comes from an mp3 instead of their own instrument. There isn't some horde of artists who will never know it because their i…

I have to strongly disagree. Humans are innately creative--just watch any child play if you doubt this.

What many people lack is not creativity, but the confidence and skills to creatively express themselves. The majority of people do not have that spark they were born with nurtured, they have it squashed.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#36

Post by interpol_p »

scintill76 wrote: post #34
interpol_p wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we follow your argument to the logical extreme there is no such thing as free software because the computer to run such software almost always costs money? (Unless you receive a computer as a gift or it is freely leased; but then that applies to Macs as much as any computer.)

The GNU toolchain (or whatever) is licensed to run on any hardware that you can possibly use it on, which will often be cheaper and more accessible than a Mac. Xcode requires Mac OS, which is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. You can buy used Apple hardware fairly cheaply, but I think that post still has a point about relative cost.

I'm not suggesting that hardware can't be cheaper.

I'm saying that if you define free software as software that must be available on free hardware, then there is not much free software at all.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#37

Post by sam_goody »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #29

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here. Most people are not creative. Its true. There isn't some horde of people who want to program but don't know it yet because they own a tablet instead of a computer. There isn't some horde of musicians that will never know it because their music comes from an mp3 instead of their own instrument. There isn't some horde of artists who will never know it because their i…

I disagree. As soon as it became as easy to create video as it was to draw, people created video content, not just consumed it. When sharing (youtube) was easy, the levels of creation have grown unbounded.

The amount of media in all forms that is being created today is astounding. That's digital drawing

If coding was as easy as writing we would find at least as much growth there. I know dozens of people who have ideas that would try to code, if it was as conceptually easy for them to do as is writing a memoir.

Such a revolution could definitely happen.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#38

Post by MawNicker »

interpol_p wrote: post #36
scintill76 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GNU toolchain (or whatever) is licensed to run on any hardware that you can possibly use it on, which will often be cheaper and more accessible than a Mac. Xcode requires Mac OS, which is only licensed for use on Apple hardware. You can buy used Apple hardware fairly cheaply, but I think that post still has a point about relative cost.

I'm not suggesting that hardware can't be cheaper. I'm saying that if you define free software as software that must be available on free hardware, then there is not much free software at all.

That's not his argument. His argument is that an apple computer is required for Xcode. An apple computer is a regular computer except that it costs more and comes with a bundle of software. Xcode is in the bundle. So... The price is indeterminable but definitely not $0. He hedged specifically against your reductio ad absurdem by mentioning the price difference.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#39

Post by interpol_p »

MawNicker wrote: post #38
interpol_p wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not suggesting that hardware can't be cheaper. I'm saying that if you define free software as software that must be available on free hardware, then there is not much free software at all.

That's not his argument. His argument is that an apple computer is required for Xcode. An apple computer is a regular computer except that it costs more and comes with a bundle of software. Xcode is in the bundle. So... The price is indeterminable but definitely not $0. He hedged specifically against your reductio ad absurdem by mentioning the price difference.

The argument was made against the statement "Apple gives Xcode away for free."

They do give Xcode away for free. I didn't think that factoring a modern development computer into the price was a reasonable stance to take against that line.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#40

Post by mchaver »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #29

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here. Most people are not creative. Its true. There isn't some horde of people who want to program but don't know it yet because they own a tablet instead of a computer. There isn't some horde of musicians that will never know it because their music comes from an mp3 instead of their own instrument. There isn't some horde of artists who will never know it because their i…

I'm not sure if there is any data to back it up, but I remember reading somewhere that the average American adult is less likely to casually partake in sports or music (compared to maybe 100 years ago) based on the perception that they wouldn't be good as a professional athlete or musician because of constant exposure to experts via television, MP3s, youtube, etc. Music and sports are seen as something that kids or experts do, and programming is mostly for experts. I think any important issue to resolve is how do we change the thought pattern and convince people that it is acceptable to do these activities without being an professional/expert?
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