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Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

blogs.adobe.com

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Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#31

Post by smcq »

wizard_2 wrote: post #25
bad_user wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web didn't had at first a common format for images ... but now all modern browsers have support for GIF, JPEG, and PNG. And it was probably a smart move on their part to avoid political issues. Apple will add Theora support if the demand increases. Mozilla will add H.264 support when the IP-issues are cleared.

Is there a moment to "clear" the H.264 issues? I have the understanding that the people who own the copyright are making plenty of money off of it and it quite a popular format. I don't see why they would give that up.

Copyright is not patent. Patents expire inside our lifetimes. H.264 will be a viable product for startups to use in 2017.

(As an aside, don't cast this as a FF vs. the world, patent fees kill startups as well as open source companies.)

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#32

Post by jrockway »

If I were Adobe, I would start working on an IDE (and library set) for JavaScript + HTML5. Everything Flash does could easily be JavaScript and a library; their language is already JavaScript anyway.

It's time to let their proprietary VM die, because modern browsers already have all those features working better. Adobe's advantage is in making animation a point-and-click operation that doesn't involve programming. They need to let Flash die and embrace the open version of Flash; JavaScript.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#33

Post by jarrodtaylor »

boucher wrote: post #27
jarrodtaylor wrote: post #26

"By augmenting the capabilities of HTML, Flash has been incredibly successful in its adoption, with over 85% of the top web sites containing Flash content..." And how much of that is just ads?

Why shouldn't ads be relevant? Turns out it's how the majority of the web is making money.

It just sounded to me like he was trying to make it sound like most of the top sites were using Flash for their own content, when it's more likely they are only displaying someone else's ad.

I don't have a problem with ads, though Google is a good case of not needing Flash to make effective ads.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#34

Post by [deleted] »

jodrellblank wrote: post #23

Our mission at Adobe is to revolutionize how people engage with ideas and information [..] We are continuing to focus on enabling our customers to do their best work, and helping them reach people effectively and reliably around the world [..] Please note that the comments aren't currently working and we're in the process of fixing right now. Oh, Adobe. Hello? Hello?

[deleted]

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#35

Post by tomlin »

jrockway wrote: post #32

If I were Adobe, I would start working on an IDE (and library set) for JavaScript + HTML5. Everything Flash does could easily be JavaScript and a library; their language is already JavaScript anyway. It's time to let their proprietary VM die, because modern browsers already have all those features working better. Adobe's advantage is in making animation a point-and-click operation that doesn't involve programming. Th…

That is simply not true. Flash 5 == JS+HTML5.

I know you don't want to hear that, but you might have to actually face the fact that HTML5 is not the Flash killer you want it to be. Not yet, anyhow.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#36

Post by tomlin »

briggsrs wrote: post #20

I wonder if anyone has done a feature by feature comparison between HTML 5 and Flash? That is what can I do with Flash, that I cannot with HTML 5 and vice versa? As of right now, I am forced to assume that Flash has an advantage over HTML 5 solely because most people are not aware of the potential benefits of HTML 5 over Flash.

Flash 5 == JS+HTML5.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#37

Post by jrockway »

tomlin wrote: post #35
jrockway wrote: post #32

If I were Adobe, I would start working on an IDE (and library set) for JavaScript + HTML5. Everything Flash does could easily be JavaScript and a library; their language is already JavaScript anyway. It's time to let their proprietary VM die, because modern browsers already have all those features working better. Adobe's advantage is in making animation a point-and-click operation that doesn't involve programming. Th…

That is simply not true. Flash 5 == JS+HTML5. I know you don't want to hear that, but you might have to actually face the fact that HTML5 is not the Flash killer you want it to be. Not yet, anyhow.

You can play full-screen, streaming, 1080p video without Flash, you can render vector graphics without Flash, you can use OpenGL without Flash, you can play sound without Flash, and you can write code that is dynamically compiled to native machine code... without Flash.

So apart from missing libraries (which Adobe would port), I fail to see what Flash is needed for. Modern browsers have the ability to do everything Flash does; and if they don't, the ability can be added. (Adobe could even add the features themselves; every relevant browser is Free Software!)

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#38

Post by tolmasky »

bad_user wrote: post #5

Jeez, just let the market sort it out ... if the demand is really that high, Apple will just suck it and add Flash to the iPad. Otherwise stop your bitching, you can't win them all. The iPhone story is irrelevant in this context ... I don't think there are too many people wanting to play flash-games or to watch porn on that little screen ... especially since you need both hands to navigate its tiny browser ;) Their s…

Let the market sort it out? He's the CTO of Adobe, his job is to push the market one way or another, this isn't bitching, this is exactly what he's supposed to do. If this was just another blogger going on about Flash yet again then I might agree, but that's clearly not the case.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#39

Post by tomlin »

jrockway wrote: post #37
tomlin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply not true. Flash 5 == JS+HTML5. I know you don't want to hear that, but you might have to actually face the fact that HTML5 is not the Flash killer you want it to be. Not yet, anyhow.

You can play full-screen, streaming, 1080p video without Flash, you can render vector graphics without Flash, you can use OpenGL without Flash, you can play sound without Flash, and you can write code that is dynamically compiled to native machine code... without Flash. So apart from missing libraries (which Adobe would port), I fail to see what Flash is needed for. Modern browsers have the ability to do everything F…

Really? So if an ad agency told you you needed to port mycanvas.landsend.com or similar venture to HTML5+JS using the "future browser" you speak of, you couldn't see any problems with that?

My favorite line: "and if they don't, the ability can be added". Yeah, we've seen web standards move at incredible speeds. YouTube, Hulu and the ilk would be glad to hear they wouldn't have a hope in hell in your world for years.

Here's a fantastic quote: "Does anyone else remember seeing really sexy "DHTML" demos that featured full-screen animation and more? I do. You know when that was? 1998"

Let me know your plans to pull all of these techs together. I'd like to see that.

Re: Adobe CTO on the state of Flash

#40

Post by jrockway »

tomlin wrote: post #39
jrockway wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can play full-screen, streaming, 1080p video without Flash, you can render vector graphics without Flash, you can use OpenGL without Flash, you can play sound without Flash, and you can write code that is dynamically compiled to native machine code... without Flash. So apart from missing libraries (which Adobe would port), I fail to see what Flash is needed for. Modern browsers have the ability to do everything F…

Really? So if an ad agency told you you needed to port mycanvas.landsend.com or similar venture to HTML5+JS using the "future browser" you speak of, you couldn't see any problems with that? My favorite line: "and if they don't, the ability can be added". Yeah, we've seen web standards move at incredible speeds. YouTube, Hulu and the ilk would be glad to hear they wouldn't have a hope in hell in your world for years.…

Having worked for ad agencies, I would never do that again.

But anyway, Flash doesn't work on the iPad at all. So if you want your site to show up there, you have HTML 5 and JavaScript at your disposal; a Flash site is not even an option. Adobe isn't going to convince Apple to change their mind, but they can release a tool allowing Flash developers to migrate to HTML + JavaScript. With this in place, they don't need to maintain the Flash plugin anymore, except perhaps for IE users.

YouTube, Hulu and the ilk would be glad to hear they wouldn't have a hope in hell in your world for years.

So hostile. I'm not the one releasing devices that don't support Flash but do support HTML and JavaScript.

YouTube is already doing what I describe. They tell IE users to stop using it, and they develop their own web browser. Flash will not be YouTube's default player for much longer.

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