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Running 50km after 82h of fasting

blog.xavivives.com

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Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#31

Post by arnold_palmur »

PhrosTT wrote: post #5

I've seen people die running a half marathon. Please don't push your body to the breaking point just for giggles. Work your way up.

I was watching my fiance run and someone died literally right in front of me at the Brooklyn half-marathon in the fall (he was a young guy - I'd say late 20s). He collapsed right at the finish line and they couldn't revive him. The crazy thing is there was no mention of it after the race or anywhere, I tried googling to find out more info. but nothing. The only info. I found was on /r/running people where people who were also in attendance were talking about it. Marathons just seem so unnatural to me.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#32

Post by runjake »

xavivives wrote: post #27
runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

I did ran all the way. Surely it wasn't fast, but take in account that there was 2000+ meters of elevation gain.

I found your Strava data and updated my comment.

And pfft 2000m+ elevation gain over 50km. Those are gently rolling hills ;-)

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#33

Post by odonnellryan »

runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

50K isn't easy for even people in good physical shape, especially if there are hills!

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#34

Post by jessep »

I applaud the author's spirit of mad science and adventure.

As someone with a lot of doctor friends and family, I think it is pretty clear most doctors are not familiar with the relevant research and by default give a cautionary response which merely parrots back the status quo fears, but they're even more risk averse due to malpractice concerns. In terms of getting your blood work done, sure, I'll agree that seems interesting.

My father, a doctor, used to be afraid of low carb/ketosis diets, because "bacon, cheese". Years later he read the relevant information and completely switched camps.

Finally, self experimentation can be dangerous, sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't valuable and interesting. Do you think people should never do potentially dangerous things in pursuit of adventure, knowledge, truth?

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#35

Post by bluedino »

xavivives wrote: post #27
runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

I did ran all the way. Surely it wasn't fast, but take in account that there was 2000+ meters of elevation gain.

15/min miles make that more of an 8 hour 'walk'

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#36

Post by pneumatics »

runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

This is a gnarly run. Almost 7000 ft of climbing (he gives the value in m, but all my reference points are in feet). It appears he was not auto-pausing, but did stop quite a bit. The time spent moving was 5:49. His pace, excluding the time stopped, was 11:12 min/mi. With the elevation gain, this is most definitely running.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#37

Post by tacos »

jessep wrote: post #34

I applaud the author's spirit of mad science and adventure. As someone with a lot of doctor friends and family, I think it is pretty clear most doctors are not familiar with the relevant research and by default give a cautionary response which merely parrots back the status quo fears, but they're even more risk averse due to malpractice concerns. In terms of getting your blood work done, sure, I'll agree that seems i…

Do what you want privately but the value proposition changes when you publish your self-experimentation world-wide. More so when you promote it. And yet more still if and when you try to profit from it.

There are clear and common ethical standards here and the blog post comes in well under them.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#38

Post by dspillett »

bosdev wrote: post #18
PhrosTT wrote: post #5

I've seen people die running a half marathon. Please don't push your body to the breaking point just for giggles. Work your way up.

I think you have to think about how those people died. Heat exhaustion? An underlying heart condition? I don't think they died of not having enough nutrients, or not eating soon enough before running.

Sometimes stroke or similar, caused by incorrect hydration by just drinking lots of plain/plain-ish water which leave various useful things in your body too diluted to be useful. Sometimes an exacerbating factor in heat stroke, so not diagnosed as the heat stroke is seen as the only problem and other causes of heat stroke are assumed. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#39

Post by brianwawok »

pneumatics wrote: post #36
runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

This is a gnarly run. Almost 7000 ft of climbing (he gives the value in m, but all my reference points are in feet). It appears he was not auto-pausing, but did stop quite a bit. The time spent moving was 5:49. His pace, excluding the time stopped, was 11:12 min/mi. With the elevation gain, this is most definitely running.

To a decent runner that is nearly walking though. A record road race marathon pace is ~4:45 min miles. A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats, which is only a titch under the 50k of this race.

Trail races are slower, and 7000 feet is a decent amount of climbing.. but he was in no danger of setting any land speed record. 15 min miles is not that much faster than walking.

So this proves you can speed-walk an ultra in a fasted state. Which is cool and shows how strong our bodies are. scott jurek is amazing at ultras, and a vegan - but he definately eats and runs off sugar.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#40

Post by IgorPartola »

I just started training for my first marathon, and am trying to do some reading on the subject. Hal Higdon's position is I guess what you might call "traditional": your muscles use glycogen as the preferred energy source. Around mile 20 is when most people deplete their glycogen and start burning fat as the primary source of energy, but this is much less efficient, resulting in a performance drop. If this is indeed true, then I guess it means that if your goal is top performance, then carbs are your friend. If your goal is fat loss, then low-carb diet plus long endurance exercise is for you. Does that seem right?
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