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Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

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Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#31

Post by Piskvorrr »

scotty79 wrote: post #7

> Computing-wise that three week vacation turned out to be very relaxing. Machine would suspend and resume without problem, Wi-Fi just worked, audio did not stop working, I spend three weeks without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation that my ThinkPad suffered For three weeks every system works. After six months e…

You seem to be doing something strange. The (Linux,Windows,Android) systems under my control (mine+family) seem to be working rather well for years, without any special sauce on my part, or the users'.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#32

Post by laumars »

crncosta wrote: post #9

I am using Debian as my main desktop (laptop in this case) for the last 8 years... sure I am not the only one. I have suspend/hibernate, great Gnome experience, no issues to run presentations or use public printers, really stable and very fast experience, and I did not configure any system aspect to make it work, just installed the distribution and that works out of box. Well, I am very happy with Linux desktop. Just…

Probably about 15 years in my case. :)

I've been running Arch Linux for about 8 years, Slackware for several years before that. But I think it was Mandrake that I originally ran as my desktop - way back at the turn of the century (albeit not as my primary desktop)

My Linux experience hasn't been without it's problems. But I really hated the direction Microsoft took with XP and, back then, I couldn't afford a Mac. So Linux was more a case of "the lesser of 3 evils" - particularly since my previous favourite OS, BeOS, was pretty much dead by that point. But over the years I've come to appreciate and depend on the POSIX / Linux paradigm so much that I feel completely handicapped when presented with a Windows desktop.

Which brings me to the crux of the issues with any Windows desktop vs Linux desktop debates: the two paradigms are vastly different yet many of the "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" conclusions are derived from authors approaching Linux like a Windows clone and then wondering why things don't behave like they'd expect.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#33

Post by scotty79 »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #31
scotty79 wrote: post #7

> Computing-wise that three week vacation turned out to be very relaxing. Machine would suspend and resume without problem, Wi-Fi just worked, audio did not stop working, I spend three weeks without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation that my ThinkPad suffered For three weeks every system works. After six months e…

You seem to be doing something strange. The (Linux,Windows,Android) systems under my control (mine+family) seem to be working rather well for years , without any special sauce on my part, or the users'.

I don't do anything beyond installing, uninstalling and upgrading software. I don't tamper with the system itself, don't use any automatic system cleaners, decrapifiers and such.

For example my Windows 10 now got stuck on some system upgrade and periodically informs me about that with fullscreen message box and sound gets stuck for fraction of a second from time to time when I watch movies and games I'm playing get stuck from time to time for few seconds when I'm running them from one SSD but not the other.

My Mac OSX gets stuck on accessing network share and refuses to continue until I restart finder, also prefers WiFi when cable connection is available despite wifi being lower on "set service order".

Haven't run Linux for last few years as a main system but I'd surely find some stuff that stopped working after few months or in some circumstances.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#35

Post by secstate »

dagw wrote: post #27
suvelx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought the new Dell Precision 5510 (Business version of the new XPS 15) this week. With a 4.4 kernel, Everything seems to work more-or-less fine. There's one or two issues with the graphics stack (HiDPI display, Nvidia Card), but these have workable solutions. Heck, my last laptop (Sony Vaio Z), more-or-less worked too. I think you've just got to follow one rule: Intel, Intel, Intel.

"more-or-less worked" is the story of my 15+ year history with Linux as a desktop. Unfortunately these is always one or two small but important thing which doesn't quite work which always eventually sends me back to windows/OS X.

Not trying to troll here, but in my experience this is true as well. You know what the culprit usually is? PULSEAUDIO ... oh my. I appreciate that audio is a complex solution, but it seems that even suspend issues often come back to, "oh, well pulseaudio isn't letting it ..." sigh

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#36

Post by dagw »

secstate wrote: post #35
dagw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"more-or-less worked" is the story of my 15+ year history with Linux as a desktop. Unfortunately these is always one or two small but important thing which doesn't quite work which always eventually sends me back to windows/OS X.

Not trying to troll here, but in my experience this is true as well. You know what the culprit usually is? PULSEAUDIO ... oh my. I appreciate that audio is a complex solution, but it seems that even suspend issues often come back to, "oh, well pulseaudio isn't letting it ..." sigh

Funny you should say that. Pulseaudio, and not getting it to work reliably with Skype, was what one the main things that drove me away from Linux on my latest attempt to switch.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#37

Post by teddyh »

mojuba wrote: post #25
restalis wrote: post #20

"Android contains the only Linux component - the kernel" Well, only the kernel IS actually Linux. A Linux-kernel based *nix OS in itself, which is usually wrongly assumed as Linux, is not in fact Linux (or not quite). In this regard Android is just like a lot of other Linux-kernel based distributions, no mater that it runs on an older/modified kernel.

That's not entirely correct. Linux kernel is Linux kernel; what we call "Linux" usually also includes the GNU userland. And then there are "Linux flavours" that only differ in the way they screw up packaging and updates of the kernel and the userland.

What you call “flavors”, most people call “distributions”. And you are wrong; “Linux” is the name of the kernel.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#38

Post by teddyh »

IshKebab wrote: post #17

I'm not sure it's even "ready for the server". I have a server without a monitor I'd like to VNC to. Unfortunately X doesn't start without a physical monitor plugged in because it uses it for autodetection. It's such a silly problem that you can even buy fake "monitor" dongles to plug in to trick X into thinking that there is one. I don't feel like spending money on a software problem so I followed the standard worka…

> I have a server without a monitor I'd like to VNC to.

That’s your problem right there. You can’t (or, rather, don’t) “VNC” to Unix servers. For normal remote access, you use SSH. If you really need to run a graphical X program continuously on a server, you run a virtual X server program like “Xvfb”, and point your graphical X program to that. You can then “VNC” all you like to this virtual X server. All without a monitor or even a graphics card or a mouse on the actual server.

This thinking – the idea that a server has something one can refer to as “the” screen, or “the” mouse – is completely and utterly wrong, and betrays a thinking born from Microsoft Windows and other desktop-only-oriented operating systems.

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#39

Post by maxerickson »

teddyh wrote: post #38
IshKebab wrote: post #17

I'm not sure it's even "ready for the server". I have a server without a monitor I'd like to VNC to. Unfortunately X doesn't start without a physical monitor plugged in because it uses it for autodetection. It's such a silly problem that you can even buy fake "monitor" dongles to plug in to trick X into thinking that there is one. I don't feel like spending money on a software problem so I followed the standard worka…

> I have a server without a monitor I'd like to VNC to. That’s your problem right there. You can’t (or, rather, don’t ) “VNC” to Unix servers. For normal remote access, you use SSH. If you really need to run a graphical X program continuously on a server, you run a virtual X server program like “Xvfb”, and point your graphical X program to that. You can then “VNC” all you like to this virtual X server. All without a…

Microsoft is going to ship a headless version of Windows Server:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt126167.aspx

Re: Is Linux ready for desktop? tl;dr – NO

#40

Post by osullivj »

maxerickson wrote: post #39
teddyh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a server without a monitor I'd like to VNC to. That’s your problem right there. You can’t (or, rather, don’t ) “VNC” to Unix servers. For normal remote access, you use SSH. If you really need to run a graphical X program continuously on a server, you run a virtual X server program like “Xvfb”, and point your graphical X program to that. You can then “VNC” all you like to this virtual X server. All without a…

Microsoft is going to ship a headless version of Windows Server: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt126167.aspx

I had a play with the headless Windows 2016 TP3 on Azure late last year and blogged my experience here [1]. You can even run GUI programs on it; I found it useful to run Sys Internals Process Explorer to track what was really happening with the Containers. Obviously there's no desktop with file explorer etc.

[1] https://etrading.wordpress.com/2015/10/13/windows-containers...

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