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Working fewer hours would make us more productive

theguardian.com

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Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#31

Post by wslh »

throwaway7767 wrote: post #30

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#32

Post by c1sc0 »

branchless wrote: post #29

Until we have control over land prices via land value tax we will always work a full week. Land prices are set by credit which will expand to fill all labour less food / heating costs. Only when land is cheaper can we opt out of working 40 hours and this will see a general reduction in the average working week. Until then we are all banker bitches.

Who is this "we"? Just curious & trying to understand your thinking. Can you elaborate?

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#33

Post by cubano »

branchless wrote: post #29

Until we have control over land prices via land value tax we will always work a full week. Land prices are set by credit which will expand to fill all labour less food / heating costs. Only when land is cheaper can we opt out of working 40 hours and this will see a general reduction in the average working week. Until then we are all banker bitches.

There are plenty of places, all over the world, where land is quite cheap, so I don't quite follow your thinking here.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#34

Post by throwaway7767 »

wslh wrote: post #31
throwaway7767 wrote: post #30

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

I never said it was for everyone, but I suspect people magnify the expected issues a lot.

Everyone knows I won't be here on wednesdays, so we try to arrange things so I'm not a bottleneck during that time. If some really important deadline shows up, I'll just work the one wednesday and take thursday off instead, it's not a big deal. I haven't needed to yet though.

Besides, assuming you're not on a really tiny team, if many parts of your project hinge on one person with no available backup, you have bigger problems related to project management.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#35

Post by m52go »

branchless wrote: post #29

Until we have control over land prices via land value tax we will always work a full week. Land prices are set by credit which will expand to fill all labour less food / heating costs. Only when land is cheaper can we opt out of working 40 hours and this will see a general reduction in the average working week. Until then we are all banker bitches.

I believe the argument is directed toward salaried workers, so reducing hours would not reduce pay, so land/rent costs are irrelevant.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#36

Post by DanBC »

golergka wrote: post #7

I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? I think that this can be achieved with a softer approach. Imagine that when you sign up for a job, you select how many days per week do you want to work, from 3 to 6, with proportionate wage scale. That you can select what hours do you want to work. That it's easy to change this arrangement while you're…

> I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law?

We tried asking nicely; employers were abusive arseholes. This is why we can't have nice things.

Without law we see huge rich multinationals forcing people to stay at work but "clocking off" (and thus not getting paid) when things are quiet; or asking for very long hours without sensible overtime.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#37

Post by tomp »

golergka wrote: post #17
tomp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws are pretty important, actually. IIRC, in Slovenia, if you don't work 40 hour weeks, you'll have issues with retirement (e.g. you'll have to retire later, or your pension would be smaller (regardless of your salary)). I'm assuming there are similar issues with health/social insurance.

I think I covered these issues in my first point: you can do that, it's allowed, but it's just not comfortable to deviate from the norm right now.

If by "comfortable" you mean "unprofitable" (i.e. you're earning disproportionately less money, despite being equally or more productive), then yes.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#38

Post by daveguy »

throwaway7767 wrote: post #34
wslh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

I never said it was for everyone, but I suspect people magnify the expected issues a lot. Everyone knows I won't be here on wednesdays, so we try to arrange things so I'm not a bottleneck during that time. If some really important deadline shows up, I'll just work the one wednesday and take thursday off instead, it's not a big deal. I haven't needed to yet though. Besides, assuming you're not on a really tiny team, i…

Or you're an early startup. Sometimes hinged-on-one-person is all you have because there are only a few people with some non-overlapping talents.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#39

Post by briandear »

DanBC wrote: post #36
golergka wrote: post #7

I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? I think that this can be achieved with a softer approach. Imagine that when you sign up for a job, you select how many days per week do you want to work, from 3 to 6, with proportionate wage scale. That you can select what hours do you want to work. That it's easy to change this arrangement while you're…

> I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? We tried asking nicely; employers were abusive arseholes. This is why we can't have nice things. Without law we see huge rich multinationals forcing people to stay at work but "clocking off" (and thus not getting paid) when things are quiet; or asking for very long hours without sensible overtime.

Plenty of non rich small companies do the same thing. Perhaps worse because they don't have official HR policies that cover contingencies.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#40

Post by briandear »

moomin wrote: post #5

The article makes the fundamental error of assuming that if you worked ten hours less, someone else would get to work ten hours more. But other than that, it's a pretty good article grounded in actual fact.

Right. That 35 hour workweek in France has resulted in higher unemployment not lower.
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