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Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

economist.com

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Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#31

Post by [deleted] »

pm90 wrote: post #16
ignoramous wrote: post #10

I'm a Gujarati. My ancestors established businesses in most British colonies at the time, from Ceylon to Hong Kong, from Siam to Réunion, from Australia to the Suez, from Kenya to Rangoon. Our family names are based on places where our dad worked for a living. For instance, my mother's family name is Siamwala (an indicator that my grand dad and his family were involved in international trade based in Thailand). This…

That is a very rosy view of Gujaratis. A lot of non-Gujarati folks think of them as ruthlessly miserly and capable of going to any lengths to make money. Surely an attribute that helps in a business, but not one that endears them to the 'host' society.

[deleted]

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#32

Post by ashayh »

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish:

"Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, with no contracts”. "

These people have traveled from Antwerp to Tokyo for 200 years...yet Palanpur is a shithole just like every other town in India. They have seen all the benefits of a free and modern society, but have not lifted a finger to bring 1% of those ideas to the town where they live.

Surat which processes 90% of the worlds diamonds is also a shithole. Its just yet another massive Indian city with no modern infrastructure, garbage and sewers everywhere, and had a plague outbreak about a decade ago!

While these globe trotters make millions which they stash, how much money do you think the rank and file of diamond polishers make? Do they have adequate health benefits and protection against problems like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16201206

“We don’t have to deal with government too much, and mostly not with the banks, as most money comes from families,” says Dinesh Navadiya, the head of the Surat Diamond Association. “So there is little scope for corruption.”

No corruption...except massive tax avoidance. It is impossible to run the smallest business in India without running into corruption.

Some might argue these people have no obligation to improve society and that's Ok. But any article writing about the pros, should also write about the cons.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#33

Post by gotchange »

rufuswoo wrote: post #29
gotchange wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Like the Jews, Chinese, English, Scots and Lebanese, they have come to form an impressive global commercial network." English people as merchants or commercial folks on an individual level, I haven't heard of that. Maybe from Europe the Italians or Greeks to some extent, that's true but English people, I don't think that his/her observation is correct.

The article is referring to these diasporas forming 'global commercial networks', so I think your interpretation is slightly off. Interesting article. Gujarati's are also responsible for some of the finest 'Indian' cuisine around too!

I was arguing that on an individual level English people don't rank higher when it comes to entrepreneurship. I was not arguing that the British Empire wasn't commercially successful or that it didn't manage to accumulate wealth from their colonies if that what you were alluding to in your reply.

English people didn't make it commercially « on their own » but with the help of their state or empire globally and this is a historical fact and thus the comparison to the Chinese, Levantines or Jews who mostly acted on personal initiatives is not apt one.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#34

Post by [deleted] »

rufuswoo wrote: post #29
gotchange wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Like the Jews, Chinese, English, Scots and Lebanese, they have come to form an impressive global commercial network." English people as merchants or commercial folks on an individual level, I haven't heard of that. Maybe from Europe the Italians or Greeks to some extent, that's true but English people, I don't think that his/her observation is correct.

The article is referring to these diasporas forming 'global commercial networks', so I think your interpretation is slightly off. Interesting article. Gujarati's are also responsible for some of the finest 'Indian' cuisine around too!

[deleted]

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#35

Post by [deleted] »

lumberjack wrote: post #15

The confidence with which the author generalizes various groups of people in the article makes me quite uneasy. We know that this is not permitted if we are attributing negative qualities to a group of people. Why is it then permissible to generalize when we are praising the same groups? In doing so the author is sort of admitting that it is at times logical to generalize groups of people and that there is no risk of…

[deleted]

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#36

Post by [deleted] »

lumberjack wrote: post #15

The confidence with which the author generalizes various groups of people in the article makes me quite uneasy. We know that this is not permitted if we are attributing negative qualities to a group of people. Why is it then permissible to generalize when we are praising the same groups? In doing so the author is sort of admitting that it is at times logical to generalize groups of people and that there is no risk of…

[deleted]

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#37

Post by [deleted] »

lumberjack wrote: post #15

The confidence with which the author generalizes various groups of people in the article makes me quite uneasy. We know that this is not permitted if we are attributing negative qualities to a group of people. Why is it then permissible to generalize when we are praising the same groups? In doing so the author is sort of admitting that it is at times logical to generalize groups of people and that there is no risk of…

[deleted]

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#38

Post by hackaflocka »

Indian Gujarati here, so I get a pass for what I'm about to write.

If this article was about whites or about Christians, it would not have a laudatory tone. Instead, the author would be writing about how the "old boys network" keeps others out of lucrative businesses, about how there's no diversity in the top rungs of these companies, and about how "handshakes" are circumventing government laws and taxation. But that is exactly what the Gujarati network is all about. Yes, it is a hardworking group, but also very in-group oriented, and yes, racist.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#39

Post by pjg »

ashayh wrote: post #32

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish: "Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, w…

You quoted economist and mentioned Surat as a dump. It might help if you read an article Economist published about Surat, in 2012 http://www.economist.com/node/21563412 (last 4 paragraphs )

Excerpt: What it takes A far more encouraging example can be found farther up the coast. Surat, a city in Gujarat of 4.5m people, is a flourishing trading hub that not long ago was a wretched dump like Gorakhpur. In 1994, after a reported (but never confirmed) outbreak of pneumonic plague, it became famous for squalor, gridlock, slums and rotten management. Since then it has been transformed. Effective managers cleaned up. Rubbish was collected and transport improved, streets were swept and public services delivered. Miraculously, the improvements were sustained. Some 96% of residents pay their municipal taxes on time. Manoj Kumar Das, who now runs the city, says that over the past decade the growth in Surat’s population averaged 5% a year, among the fastest of any city in the world. According to his planners, by 2031 it could have 9.3m people, overtaking London.

You complain about "positive generalizations" and yet you resort to generalizations yourself without checking facts ?

As for Palanpur - I don't know much - but fund this: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g1156005-d302375-Rev....

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#40

Post by hackaflocka »

ashayh wrote: post #32

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish: "Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, w…

Indian Gujarati here. OP is correct. Gujaratis are good at making money in a host society. But the original towns etc. in Gujarat are shite-holes, and they've not cross-pollinated all the progress of their host societies into their source society. Also, as far as helping non-Gujaratis is concerned, fuhgeddedaboutit. To me, the implication is that they essentially lack societal vision, altruism and out-group empathy. (I'm considered an outcaste, a "wannabe sell-out" because I question why no Gujarati billionaires do more for Gujarat -- or India or Africa -- than Bill Gates.)
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