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When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

nytimes.com

31–40 of 274 posts

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#31

> Even worse, they had paid taxes on the stock based on the higher value. That's the most annoying part of the entire article, and why I ask for salary rather than equity. Keep your stock, I'd rather pay my bills.

Joining public or late stage pre-IPO companies, equity provides the possibility of real wealth. There is a great Wealthfront article about this -- that if you live in the bay area and have a normal nuclear family, you need equity if you hope to pay for a house, college, etc.

I've seen this in my own life and in many colleagues, friends, and people I've hired. It's not a guaranteed paycheck, but in the bay area getting a healthy equity grant is part of the standard comp package. Without luck, it can be a nice bonus. With some luck it can really move the needle. And with ISO's especially you can choose when to pay taxes on the income.

I know that outside the bay area comp packages are structured differently -- and often less lucratively.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#32

> Even worse, they had paid taxes on the stock based on the higher value. That's the most annoying part of the entire article, and why I ask for salary rather than equity. Keep your stock, I'd rather pay my bills.

While that does suck... they exercised early for the capital gains tax treatment. If there was no risk involved, it doesn't really deserve a lower tax rate.

in most standard startup contracts you are forced to either exercise when leaving the startup (30-90days) or forfeit them

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#33
Very glad the NYTimes ran this piece. The only part they underplayed is they made it sound like the startup "stumbled." No, it sounds like it went exactly as planned. Blackberry got the acquisitions, investors got their money, execs got their bonuses, and the rank-and-file got nothing. That isn't stumbling, that's the playbook.

Tech employees need to wake up about common vs preferred shares, and that the former are worthless. They are NOT worthless because they are "lottery tickets" and most startups fail. They are worthless because they are designed, as a financial instrument, to be fake equity with no real protection from dilution and liquidation preference.

The most insulting aspect of common shares is that engineers get talked into pay cuts on the premise that they get these options, essentially being asked to invest a portion of their potential compensation into the company, but are then told they don't deserve to be given real equity because they aren't "real" investors.

I understand that from a founder's perspective, asking someone to give you millions of dollars is significantly more challenging than asking someone to take a 30% pay cut, so it's easy to give strong preference to the former. But, supposedly and debatably, it's also difficult to recruit talent, and it's going to be significantly more difficult as employees increasingly realize that Common ISO's aren't "lottery tickets" they are "toilet paper". So either startups are going to have to re-invent these equity packages, or the talent will flock away from the VC companies and towards companies that can pay salary. Of course, the VCs have a huge playbook to flood the market with more talent to (taking $100 mil taxpayer money to fund the same bootcamps they invest in to work for the same companies they hire via Obama's tech talent shortage program, for example), so who knows.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#35

Regarding the fact that the employees had to pay tax on what turned out to be worthless shares: They could have avoided this by waiting to exercise their options on the eve of the liquidity event. In this case there would have been no risk. But they exercised earlier presumably to start the clock on long term capital gains treatment for the stock they received when they exercised. They took risk they didn't need to t…

Some companies sell part of your stocks (on your tax level) to pay tax in your country as soon as the options vest without your say.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#36

Regarding the fact that the employees had to pay tax on what turned out to be worthless shares: They could have avoided this by waiting to exercise their options on the eve of the liquidity event. In this case there would have been no risk. But they exercised earlier presumably to start the clock on long term capital gains treatment for the stock they received when they exercised. They took risk they didn't need to t…

The wider the gap between the exercise price and the fair market value the more AMT you will owe on the shares when you exercise. By making a speculative investment -- by exercising early -- you will owe minimal AMT at exercise time and more capital gains later when you sell.

There are very real tax advantages to exercising early.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#37

> Even worse, they had paid taxes on the stock based on the higher value. That's the most annoying part of the entire article, and why I ask for salary rather than equity. Keep your stock, I'd rather pay my bills.

Joining public or late stage pre-IPO companies, equity provides the possibility of real wealth. There is a great Wealthfront article about this -- that if you live in the bay area and have a normal nuclear family, you need equity if you hope to pay for a house, college, etc. I've seen this in my own life and in many colleagues, friends, and people I've hired. It's not a guaranteed paycheck, but in the bay area gettin…

The problem here is that "the possibility of real wealth" is not "real wealth". Not being dead provides "the possibility of real wealth" to approximately the same degree as the equity offered to anyone past double digit employee count. Even before that it's only factor unity above the baseline of "not yet dead"

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#38
It is precisely the protections of preferred stock that led to the overvaluation in the first place. http://recode.net/2015/05/10/heres-one-thing-all-the-billion...

As a common stock holder, you should know that you'll be the last one paid, if at all, because few companies can meet unicorn expectations.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#39
post #14
post #8

Can the overpaid tax be claimed back?

Theoretically, but only over a very long period of many years. If it's a big enough overpay, then it's possible for it to take many decades. edit: Here's a VERY simplified overview: http://www.wikihow.com/Claim-AMT-Credit

I have enough overpaid tax at 33 to tide me over until death. Lessons learned.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining public or late stage pre-IPO companies, equity provides the possibility of real wealth. There is a great Wealthfront article about this -- that if you live in the bay area and have a normal nuclear family, you need equity if you hope to pay for a house, college, etc. I've seen this in my own life and in many colleagues, friends, and people I've hired. It's not a guaranteed paycheck, but in the bay area gettin…

The problem here is that "the possibility of real wealth" is not "real wealth". Not being dead provides "the possibility of real wealth" to approximately the same degree as the equity offered to anyone past double digit employee count. Even before that it's only factor unity above the baseline of "not yet dead"

It's a subjective term. But IMO, a few hundred grand after-taxes is real wealth to somebody making $150k a year. It can bend the net-worth growth curve of your life -- a huge home downpayment, elimination of your student loans, etc. Be smart, take an educated risk, and IMO don't listen to people who say equity is worthless.
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