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Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

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Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#31

Post by DominikR »

ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

I'm doing exactly that, I'm self employed and take care of everything myself or at least I have someone taking care of it in my place.

Of course I charge much more than a normal employee would, I make around 20k Euros per month. (pre-tax)

Sounds like a lot - almost to the point where I sometimes feel like I have to excuse myself for it, but you also have to take into account that I have 10 years of all-round experience and I'm working harder and more focussed than most normal employees and spend a lot of time in improving my skill set in my spare time.

Not only the higher income is a good reason to be self employed, the other thing is that once you work remotely for someone, it's less likely that you will count a lot for that company.

So by letting that company employ you, you basically take a lower pay with less job security while making everything more complicated for that company. I'd rater be self employed and have a much higher than usual pay that offsets the lower job security.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#32

Post by charlesdm »

DominikR wrote: post #31
ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

I'm doing exactly that, I'm self employed and take care of everything myself or at least I have someone taking care of it in my place. Of course I charge much more than a normal employee would, I make around 20k Euros per month. (pre-tax) Sounds like a lot - almost to the point where I sometimes feel like I have to excuse myself for it, but you also have to take into account that I have 10 years of all-round experien…

And right you are. Once you account for all the taxes and expenses that you have to pay yourself, you lose a significant amount of money each month.

Most people just read the 20k number, and think, "he's making 20k a month!!!1111".

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#33

Post by SyneRyder »

dabrorius wrote: post #15
tallanvor wrote: post #12

The first item on the list is "I Will Teach You To Be Rich". That, to me, is a sign that I won't find serious opportunities on there.

I was reluctant to add that posting because of the project name. However if you read the job posting it seems much more serious than the name implies. It was an edge case but I decided to add it in the end.

If it becomes an issue, you could change the project name to Ramit Sethi (the guy behind IWTYTBR). He's pretty well known and has personal brand recognition. I don't really recognise any of the other companies on the list, maybe Semaphore, but I was really surprised to see "Whoa, Ramit's hiring."

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#34

Post by kyriakos »

DominikR wrote: post #31
ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

I'm doing exactly that, I'm self employed and take care of everything myself or at least I have someone taking care of it in my place. Of course I charge much more than a normal employee would, I make around 20k Euros per month. (pre-tax) Sounds like a lot - almost to the point where I sometimes feel like I have to excuse myself for it, but you also have to take into account that I have 10 years of all-round experien…

out of curiosity what kind of jobs you take up that pay off so much?

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#35

Post by stevoski »

nraynaud wrote: post #26
ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

In France it's risky to be self-employed and have only one customer, that could be re-qualified as a disguised employment. I don't know exactly how that works with foreign companies. edit: my remark on foreign company is that, by having no nexus in the country of the consultant, going after them seems difficult

Same in Germany. It is risky for the company, not for the "disguised employee", because the company can find that the freelancer subsequently demands back-payment of entitlements.

I've never actually heard of this happening, but I've encountered difficulties as a freelancer because a company was scared this could happen.

True ridiculous story: a German bank I did a consulting gig at for several months would not allow consultants to have their names on the office doors, unlike employees. They thought that having our names on the doors could be enough to turn us into "disguised employees".

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#36

Post by matthewmacleod »

kuschku wrote: post #22
mattmanser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's an actual company that's really called I will teach you to be rich. http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/ Although it sounds high pressure to work overtime, it actually sounds like a pretty interesting job. Apart from the PHP.

This sounds very illegal. Working more than 8h overall a day, no matter in how many jobs, is highly illegal. I wonder how they suggest to handle that.

Not, it's just not. You're misinformed. Even if the Working Time Directive was involved (which it's not, if you want to opt out), it limits work to 9.6 hours/day.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#37

Post by V-2 »

toyg wrote: post #27
kuschku wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very illegal. Working more than 8h overall a day, no matter in how many jobs, is highly illegal. I wonder how they suggest to handle that.

Illegal where? Labour regulations are very country-specific. The EU directive covering this is... flexible.

The directive says that working hours should not exceed 48 per week (so this by itself allows working more than 8h a day), plus it's ON AVERAGE, so if you do 60 hours one week and 36 another, it should be okay

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#38

Post by DominikR »

charlesdm wrote: post #32
DominikR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing exactly that, I'm self employed and take care of everything myself or at least I have someone taking care of it in my place. Of course I charge much more than a normal employee would, I make around 20k Euros per month. (pre-tax) Sounds like a lot - almost to the point where I sometimes feel like I have to excuse myself for it, but you also have to take into account that I have 10 years of all-round experien…

And right you are. Once you account for all the taxes and expenses that you have to pay yourself, you lose a significant amount of money each month. Most people just read the 20k number, and think, "he's making 20k a month!!!1111".

Yes, I pay a 50% tax here. Additionally one has to consider that you might have some down time between two projects where you don't have any income.

But still I'd encourage anyone interested to try. You'll not just improve your tech skill set, but if you make it work you'll also learn how to sell and to negotiate, which is a generally helpful skill to have in all areas of life.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#39

Post by ccozan »

stevoski wrote: post #35
nraynaud wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France it's risky to be self-employed and have only one customer, that could be re-qualified as a disguised employment. I don't know exactly how that works with foreign companies. edit: my remark on foreign company is that, by having no nexus in the country of the consultant, going after them seems difficult

Same in Germany. It is risky for the company, not for the "disguised employee", because the company can find that the freelancer subsequently demands back-payment of entitlements. I've never actually heard of this happening, but I've encountered difficulties as a freelancer because a company was scared this could happen. True ridiculous story: a German bank I did a consulting gig at for several months would not allow…

No is not ridiculous at all: having your name on a door means that you are "forced" to work there, thus rendering you in a employee since you cannot determine for yourself the place and location of work, the cornerstones of beeing a freelancer.

I do consulting for a big technology company in Munich and they have special freelancer areas where you can have any place you want, since there is no concept of "office" for a freelancers like. Some colleagues always have to chase me, since I can choose to take another place than they are used to :).

Also, you have to bring your own coffee machine, water, you are not allowed to use the ones from the kitchen, since they are only for employees. But I just don't care :), and use them anyway.

PS. i had some other crazy contract where I had to show them proof I am working also for another client, otherwise not able to take the gig. Germany is quite special :)

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#40

Post by DominikR »

kyriakos wrote: post #34
DominikR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing exactly that, I'm self employed and take care of everything myself or at least I have someone taking care of it in my place. Of course I charge much more than a normal employee would, I make around 20k Euros per month. (pre-tax) Sounds like a lot - almost to the point where I sometimes feel like I have to excuse myself for it, but you also have to take into account that I have 10 years of all-round experien…

out of curiosity what kind of jobs you take up that pay off so much?

Native mobile development for big businesses like banks or telcos. No startups as they often have lower budgets.

But I know much more self employed professionals working on Java Web backends for big companies that earn equal or much more than I do.

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