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Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

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Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#31

Post by hguant »

klodolph wrote: post #18
jheriko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD

Visual Studio can develop for iOS now (yes, you read that right), and Swift is a more pleasant alternative to Objective C. This is probably more of a, "I'd rather use Visual Studio with my Swift project" instead of "I'd rather use Swift with my Visual Studio project." It's a very nice IDE, and Xcode is not quite as nice.

I don't know if this is included in your "Xcode is not quite as nice statement", but I have personally never had VStidio crash on me. Whenever I use Xcode, it seems like every third day or so something disasterous happens.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#32

Post by pritambarhate »

I think MS has realized that desktop era is over and cloud era has taken over. They will be making much more money by renting out infrastructure than just licensing software. So they are trying hard to make sure that oepn source development tools and servers work well on Windows.

By allowing Clang comaptible code with VS, brining open source tools and servers will be much easier for developers which will help MS to retain more developer base for Windows.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#33

Post by shadowmint »

voltagex_ wrote: post #27

Does this mean that if I can make a random project build with Clang it's easier to port to Windows? (POSIX bits excepted)

yes.

You dont have to worry about the fail VS syntax parser; clang will parse your code exactly the same as it does on other platforms.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#34

Post by shanselman »

moonchrome wrote: post #17
jmspring wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look on Github (even Apache), there are Microsoft employees making contributions to open source projects under their own accounts or as part of the organization. Steps under Satya have made engagement with open source across the company generally much better, not just in field/evangelism roles. This is in addition to works like this and open sourcing of things like the CLR, etc.

Yeah, but you will notice none of those are GPL projects - and my point is OSS works as a business/support/development model even outside of "monetize on support model and force a level playing field with copyleft" (eg. RedHat) - for a large number of cases it makes sense/the incentives are right even with liberal licensing.

Not true. Microsoft commits to a number of GPLed software, not the least of which being libGIT2.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#35

Post by moonchrome »

shanselman wrote: post #34
moonchrome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you will notice none of those are GPL projects - and my point is OSS works as a business/support/development model even outside of "monetize on support model and force a level playing field with copyleft" (eg. RedHat) - for a large number of cases it makes sense/the incentives are right even with liberal licensing.

Not true. Microsoft commits to a number of GPLed software, not the least of which being libGIT2.

Yes this is true, I meant in the context of the stuff they are opensourcing with CoreCLR, Roslyn, LLILC, ASP.NET, TypeScript and stuff.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#36

Post by jheriko »

klodolph wrote: post #18
jheriko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD

Visual Studio can develop for iOS now (yes, you read that right), and Swift is a more pleasant alternative to Objective C. This is probably more of a, "I'd rather use Visual Studio with my Swift project" instead of "I'd rather use Swift with my Visual Studio project." It's a very nice IDE, and Xcode is not quite as nice.

there is still a lot of pain in using visual studio for iOS.

its obviously the way forward though... i'd still not use swift for it predominantly if i can use a tiny layer of obj-c/swift to interface to sensible code written in C++ that works for every other platform too.

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#37

Post by jheriko »

chadzawistowski wrote: post #16
jheriko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD

Pattern matching and structural types! In terms of modernity, I think Swift is between C# and F#. However, Swift is far more mainstream than F#.

neither are of great benefit imo. they certainly don't allow me to do anything new... just enable me to do things with less work.

this is not a bad thing, and certainly is a good thing, but on its own its a tiny benefit compared to writing code that works on all platforms, and which compiles to very efficient use of instructions (i have ample experience removing swift and obj-c code as an optimisation strategy sadly).

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#38

Post by jheriko »

ykl wrote: post #24
jheriko wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? i seem to have managed many such projects without such tools before and after 6 years ago... i'm not sure what benefit they would realistically have.

You managed C++ projects without a C++ compiler before? How in the world did you do that?

without /this/ c++ compiler. not all of them ¬_¬

Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1

#39

Post by jheriko »

azinman2 wrote: post #22
jheriko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD

Because it's actually a well designed language that's productive and modern? In my opinion the only thing missing is better reflection (will get better), concurrency a la Go (they're considering), and async/await. There are a couple unfinished bits but the compiler tells you "X feature not implemented YET" What's wrong with it?

i strongly disagree with that sentiment. but there we go... i can certainly go into more detail if you would like, but the main thing for me is that it solves no problems that existing languages do not, and the generated code (i.e. instructions for the CPU) from using the abstractions provided are considerably worse for performance than if i abuse a language like C++ to achieve the same features.

this is damning of the quality of the compiler imo. now that its open source i might make some effort to help this... but it seems unlikely given the utter lack of motivation to use the language to begin with (a tiny thing layer of obj-c is all i need for now - i see no reason to change this - even in light of swift)

to me it seems like apple are solving a problem that doesn't exist because they choose to ignore established and well developed languages and tool chains.

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