Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#31

Post by valvar » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:14 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #10

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

>>Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first. Those people do in fact agree with Musk. Here's James Henson, one of the world's foremost climate scientists: http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/prominent-climate-sci... "The only way to meaningfully address carbon emissions is to put a tax on carbon-based fuels, and to refu…

That's what I mean. That article, for example, would have been a much more meaningful submission. Musk's vested interests make it harder to take his statements at face value (even if they are entirely correct).

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#32

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:14 AM UTC

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#33

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:15 AM UTC

jowiar wrote: post #26

karmacondon wrote: post #17

> "This approach already occurs, Musk said, citing how taxes are higher on cigarettes and alcohol than fruits and vegetables" This is a good point, but generally discouraging the use of cigarettes or alcohol through taxation only effects people who consume those products. If you raise the tax on carbon, that cost could be passed on by businesses in unexpected ways. If the cost of me shipping vegetables across the cou…

It's absolutely covered by "revenue neutral". We tax things, but then distribute the tax revenue among the citizenry. The cost absolutely will get passed on, but that is accounted for in the end when you receive a check for ~1/300,000,000th of the net tax paid. The increased cost of essentials would be a total wash, as presumably everyone is paying roughly the same -- except to the extent that by pricing the external…

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#34

Post by hawkice » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:15 AM UTC

msellout wrote: post #14

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

Well, your barber is an expert on hair.

Well, if you really want to drill down on this example: the barber doesn't have substantial interests in which type of haircut you get. Tesla has substantial interest in which kind of carbon tax you get -- high carbon tax would be a boon. Doesn't materially effect how good an idea carbon taxes are, though.

Also, do people ask their barber what haircut they should get? I have only ever done a buzz cut or given a description / picture.

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#35

Post by tonyedgecombe » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:23 AM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #19

Oh cool, a billionaire pushing a tax that will hurt the poor while he gets to make money helping millionaires avoid it.

The poor are going to suffer the most if we allow runaway global warming.

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#36

Post by pzone » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:23 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #32

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

[deleted]

I think it's more about him being CEO of Tesla than his jet-setting

note: I'm strongly in favor of a carbon tax, but Elon Musk is a bit of a head-scratcher

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#37

Post by Cogito » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:24 AM UTC

argonaut wrote: post #16

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

It would help Tesla and SolarCity, but hurt SpaceX.

The impact to SpaceX probably wouldn't be that big.

The amount of fuel required to get to the space station is within an order of magnitude of that required to cross the Atlantic in an aeroplane.

The Falcon 9 uses about 112000 litres of fuel [1] which costs about $200000.

A 10 hour flight on a trans-atlantic jet might burn 150000 litres [2].

Even if the launch cadence increases to much more than what they have been planning (they were on track to launch about one a month this year until the CRS-7 incident), the cost to offset the carbon used in launches is almost insignificant.

There will be other aspects of the business that release carbon as well, of course, but those would be impacted in a similar fashion across the other businesses (manufacturing and logistical costs etc).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launch_prices

[2] http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/que...

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#38

Post by bordercases » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:27 AM UTC

pshc wrote: post #29

serge2k wrote: post #19

Oh cool, a billionaire pushing a tax that will hurt the poor while he gets to make money helping millionaires avoid it.

Ha! Such a cynical viewpoint, I like it.

Doesn't cynicism have value? It doesn't have to lead to inaction. It seems like an important ingredient of not being fooled.

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#39

Post by dclowd9901 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:28 AM UTC

Would this mean my company would charge me for using the break room microwave?

Re: Elon Musk: Only a Carbon Tax Will Accelerate the World's Exit from Fossil Fuels

#40

Post by pzone » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 7:28 AM UTC

jdc wrote: post #18

valvar wrote: post #4

Not that I disagree (in fact I strongly agree), but is Musk really the person we should be taking this from? It's a bit like taking investment advice from your bank, meseems. Not necessarily a bad idea, but you might want to hear with people who don't have an active interest in the placement of your money first.

Aren't there significant carbon emissions released during the production of a Tesla car and its components?

It is theoretically possible to develop technology that makes electric cars greatly more co2 efficient over the lifetime than internal combustion engines ever could be. That puts Tesla at an advantage in the long run.