Live data from Hacker News

The End of the Internet Dream

medium.com

31–40 of 212 posts

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#31
post #19

As long as you can read ISIS's Dabiq on line [1], censorship isn't working. As long as you can read Stormfront's White Pride World Wide [2], censorship isn't working. Facebook is not the Internet, even if Zuckerberg would like it to be. [1] http://www.clarionproject.org/docs/islamic-state-isis-isil-d... [2] https://www.stormfront.org

Agreed. IMHO, the author was hand wavy and unconvincing.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#32
post #19

As long as you can read ISIS's Dabiq on line [1], censorship isn't working. As long as you can read Stormfront's White Pride World Wide [2], censorship isn't working. Facebook is not the Internet, even if Zuckerberg would like it to be. [1] http://www.clarionproject.org/docs/islamic-state-isis-isil-d... [2] https://www.stormfront.org

Censorship isn't about total, fool-proof access limits. It's about trivial inconveniences[0]. "The human longing for freedom of information is a terrible and wonderful thing. It delineates a pivotal difference between mental emancipation and slavery. It has launched protests, rebellions, and revolutions. Thousands have devoted their lives to it, thousands of others have even died for it. And it can be stopped dead in…

Right. After all, even some people in North Korea can avoid some censorship by getting shipped USB drives with movies and whatnot. But you can't say that North Korea is censorship-free. If the government can keep 95% in the dark and easily brainwashed, that's good enough for it.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#33
post #8

The Internet Dream is sadly not compatibile with profit-driven world. We had some good times back when it all begun, because then nobody besides techies cared. Now that the Internet is a money making machine, there are tons of incentives to make it worse and little to make it better. In order to keep the corruption away, or maybe even limit it, all of us and our coworkers would have to start risking their livelihoods…

A decent future for humanity is not compatible with a profit-driven world. The solution is to end the profit driven world in a way that will lead to a better future, because like it or not, the profit driven world IS ending.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#34
You know, one way out of building an internet none of us actually wants just because the people with the money tell us to is to organize as a union.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of leverage software engineers already have, as evidenced by the wages and benefits that are standard in this industry, that we nevertheless refuse to use to try to exert some control over what we are building.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#35
post #25

This is one of my favorite topics because I have cause for hope. The story of internet centralization is one of network effects. Even though the internet connects every computer on the planet directly, finding people to interact in the ways we want is difficult. We post things to Facebook and Twitter because that's where our friends and like-minded strangers are actually looking for things. To fight this, we tried fe…

How does IPFS deal with censorship/takedowns, if every piece of content has a unique ID? Physically distributed systems can choose (or be induced) to implement central policy.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#36
Good article. However I don't understand why so many smart people fear decision-making machines. In my experience the decision makers in bureaucracies, government and private alike, never ever show the "humanity" ascribed to them in arguments about this issue. Instead they follow their instruction (which is actually a program written in human language) to the letter and are usually so obtuse and unempathetic it seems even the present day primitive AI would be much smarter and more flexible. The reason of course is not that people are dumb or mean, but that they are driven by incentives and incentives in these positions are never right. Machines on the other hand are not afraid to lose their job and are (potentially) capable of much deeper and broader analysis of any situation than humans while simultaneously being less prone to error.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#37

> • You won’t necessarily know anything about the decisions that affect your rights, like whether you get a loan, a job, or if a car runs over you. Things will get decided by data-crunching computer algorithms and no human will really be able to understand why. This isn't a change from the current state of things. For a hundred years, each of these decisions have been made by neural networks which we scarcely underst…

At least these are neural networks that we can hold accountable for their actions. Networks that exist in a single physical space easily detained when need be.

Not to mention that they can usually explain their reasoning and behind a decision.

Machine learning algorithms can't do that.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#38

> • You won’t necessarily know anything about the decisions that affect your rights, like whether you get a loan, a job, or if a car runs over you. Things will get decided by data-crunching computer algorithms and no human will really be able to understand why. This isn't a change from the current state of things. For a hundred years, each of these decisions have been made by neural networks which we scarcely underst…

Sure, but each of those neural networks has a face and (hopefully) a conscience. If we want to understand them better, we can ask them, sue them, pay them, shoot them, or do any of the thousands of other things we normally do with other people.

Good luck doing that with the algorithm used by a Google car to determine which pedestrian to hit.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#39
post #3

Are there any solutions? Is it possible to create a new network? How do you champion free speech and then try to control the ugly side? I'd love to read more I guess.

Let me ask, why try to control the ugly side? Let it run just as free as the good stuff, and allow people to select what they want.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#40
post #19

As long as you can read ISIS's Dabiq on line [1], censorship isn't working. As long as you can read Stormfront's White Pride World Wide [2], censorship isn't working. Facebook is not the Internet, even if Zuckerberg would like it to be. [1] http://www.clarionproject.org/docs/islamic-state-isis-isil-d... [2] https://www.stormfront.org

Censorship isn't about total, fool-proof access limits. It's about trivial inconveniences[0]. "The human longing for freedom of information is a terrible and wonderful thing. It delineates a pivotal difference between mental emancipation and slavery. It has launched protests, rebellions, and revolutions. Thousands have devoted their lives to it, thousands of others have even died for it. And it can be stopped dead in…

>Censorship isn't about total, fool-proof access limits. It's about trivial inconveniences.

That's because we have won a partial victory. They would very much like a total, fool-proof access limit.

Post reply on HN