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The War ISIS Wants

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Re: The War ISIS Wants

#31

Post by programmernews3 »

Amezarak wrote: post #15
blfr wrote: post #3

The fact that the EU’s replacement rate is 1.59 children per couple and the continent needs substantial levels of immigration to maintain a productive workforce The idea here is that all people are the same, and all you need to do is shoehorn enough to keep the economy going. Beyond the complete lack of humanity in the outlook that we are like barrels of brent, it's simply wrong. If this was the case, the entire worl…

> Beyond the complete lack of humanity in the outlook that we are like barrels of brent, it's simply wrong. Indeed. And there seems, to me, to be something nihilistic in the idea that Europeans should simply let immigrants replace them. Maybe instead, European nations should look into instituting domestic policies that encourage the population to maintain a healthy replacement rate. The article appears to be implying…

> There seems something profoundly suciidally nihilistic in the idea that Europe should simply do nothing different and simply be more and more welcoming as attacks happen in an attempt to appease extremists until at last Europe is no longer populated by Europeans.

It reminds me of this fable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Qw5xVn7c0

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#32

Post by macspoofing »

kefka wrote: post #4

So, it seems that the only way to fight this was is to change their minds by asking assistance from the peaceful Muslim groups. We can discriminate Daesh and Muslims, and that only shows the monsters they say we are. We can bomb Daesh, which only encourages more to join their cause. Worst case, we can nuke the whole area of Iraq and Syria where Daesh has power, and that would only show every Muslim in the world that…

>We can bomb Daesh, which only encourages more to join their cause.

I disagree. If they have a unfettered region to recruit from, they can and will recruit. For one thing, recruits have a place to go. More than that, they also have a place to trade and traffic weapons, drugs and oil from. They have a place to plan global attacks from.

Taking away a safe heaven makes it harder for them to do business. Right?

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#33

Post by [deleted] »

carlob wrote: post #16

My girlfriend taught in the Parisian banlieue for a year. In her experience most of what is said in this article is very much true. In this areas (which would correspond pretty much to inner cities in the US) the draw of radical Islam is very strong, starting with high school kids. After all what else is there to do? Deal drugs? On the other hand I would like to see this study that shows that increase in the level of…

[deleted]

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#34

Post by pythonlion »

carlob wrote: post #16

My girlfriend taught in the Parisian banlieue for a year. In her experience most of what is said in this article is very much true. In this areas (which would correspond pretty much to inner cities in the US) the draw of radical Islam is very strong, starting with high school kids. After all what else is there to do? Deal drugs? On the other hand I would like to see this study that shows that increase in the level of…

i'm strongly agree with your girlfriend. there were many upsets in many Muslims countries i thinks since 4 years ago. among others it was a sign of "yeah, we surly don't care about stuff was done 50 years ago" and importer a sign about change in the demographic "balance". in some places it was used to overthrow a dictator, in some places it was already done.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#35

Post by kbart »

"A July 2014 poll by ICM Research suggested that more than one in four French youth of all creeds between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four have a favorable or very favorable opinion of ISIS. Even if these estimates are high, in our own interviews with young people in the vast and soulless housing projects of the Paris banlieues we found surprisingly wide tolerance or support for ISIS among young people"

Despite these astonishing numbers, it still has nothing to do with religion, right? Downvote me to hell, but if a quarter of certain group openly supports mass-killers, I have a very serious reason to be afraid of them and avoid at all cost.

EDIT: formatting

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#36

Post by vanderhosen »

kbart wrote: post #35

"A July 2014 poll by ICM Research suggested that more than one in four French youth of all creeds between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four have a favorable or very favorable opinion of ISIS . Even if these estimates are high, in our own interviews with young people in the vast and soulless housing projects of the Paris banlieues we found surprisingly wide tolerance or support for ISIS among young people " Despite…

You seem to be ignoring the "all creeds" portion of that quote.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#37

Post by icebraining »

pythonlion wrote: post #26
asgard1024 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to imagine any effective strategy that doesn't involve killing people I disagree, one is actually described in the article: "[For] the youth of the nation are closer to the innate nature [of humans] on account of the rebelliousness within them." Do you think capitalism/democracy/whatever mix we have in the West does a good job of preventing these people fighting for "Jihad"? We don't really give young peo…

what you said its all true but there are out there already some fanatics who wants to kill you, they can. and they did, and i don't know how many more life should be letting to "statistic danger", in the various places of the world. its really hard to calculate, really.. i don't know.

Just for perspective, more people die on the roads of France every two weeks than have died in this attack.

(By the way, if you think I'm diminishing the tragedy of these deaths, aren't you diminishing the tragedy that are road fatalities?)

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#38

Post by swiley »

pythonlion wrote: post #23
omginternets wrote: post #6

It's not that I disagree with the points brought up by this article (how could I! We've known these things to be true for years!), but I'm worried about the leap that people make, namely that military action isn't necessary. It's hard to imagine any effective strategy that doesn't involve killing people in Syria. It's disgusting, necessary, and -- I willingly admit -- not sufficient.

couple of thousands pinpointed (and larger) airstrikes, comprehensive wipeout of terror cells in Europe. maybe it sound extreme, but its a clear action to-face the situation. ofcurse the first witch should come to mind is to save as many lifes and dignity etc. . and i think solving it without killing will only make it a dragging problem.

Preemptive killing like that is murder.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#39

Post by thewarrior »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #14

The article is a nuanced view of the present situation, but doesn't go into the historical perspective. Contemporary radical Islam is a response to Western modernity and perceived decadence and has been brewing for decades if not centuries. It is an outgrowth of Salafi Islam, a severely literal interpretation of the Koran that has become widespread over the past 70 years thanks to trillions of petrodollars that fund…

Isn't it funny that Wahabbists hate being called that ?

They get really agitated and say we're not Wahabbis we're just true muslims.

One interesting theory I read is that 19th Century Islam was forced to confront the reality that they had declined while Europe had soared.

In the ensuing conflict of ideas the one that won out was the thesis that the Islamic world had declined because they had gotten out of touch with the true values of Islam as practised by those at the time of the prophet.

Hence Salafism - Literally a return to the time of the prophet. Francis Fukuyama was laughed at for claiming the end of history a few years ago as he believed Western Democracy had achieved an eternal triumph.

What are we then to make of these people who believe that the end of history happened more than a thousand years ago ?

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#40

Post by seren »

omginternets wrote: post #6

It's not that I disagree with the points brought up by this article (how could I! We've known these things to be true for years!), but I'm worried about the leap that people make, namely that military action isn't necessary. It's hard to imagine any effective strategy that doesn't involve killing people in Syria. It's disgusting, necessary, and -- I willingly admit -- not sufficient.

This might be hard to understand for us, but I am sure there are Sunni civilians who would rather be under ISIS rule that Assad or Iraki rules. Isis found a fertile ground because Sunnis area were oppressed or neglected by their central government.

At any sign of serious ground military actions, all that ISIS fighter have to do is to hide in their civilian population. And that will be Fallujah all over again.

This is the reason why currently no one consider seriously to send ground troops.

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