Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

mercurynews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 218 posts

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#31

Post by TeMPOraL »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #29
nshepperd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basically saying that everyone should defect because everyone else does. Which may well be true for a single human driver, but is probably not how autonomous cars as a whole should be programmed. Nor does it support the claim that "speed itself is not dangerous". If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer (which we may actually be able to achieve once a sufficient number of law-abiding robot cars…

>If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer But that's always true. All the way down to 10mph speed limits. The job of speed limits is not maximum safety at the cost of everything else. In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

> In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

It does, because what people can tell is only the design of the stretch of the road they're at. They have no awareness of how it interacts with rest of the roads in the area. By ignoring the rules they make it significantly harder to optimize traffic flow globally. And even if the limits were wrong, it's still better to have bad rules that are actually followed, because then people responsible can actually observe they're bad and change them for the better.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#32

Post by Robin_Message »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #29
nshepperd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basically saying that everyone should defect because everyone else does. Which may well be true for a single human driver, but is probably not how autonomous cars as a whole should be programmed. Nor does it support the claim that "speed itself is not dangerous". If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer (which we may actually be able to achieve once a sufficient number of law-abiding robot cars…

>If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer But that's always true. All the way down to 10mph speed limits. The job of speed limits is not maximum safety at the cost of everything else. In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

> In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road

I think there have been quite a few studies showing most people think they are above average at driving. I don't think people do this at all. I think they are overconfident, hurrying apes, with no real conception of stopping distance or kinetic energy, aiming to just miss each other with these multi-ton projectiles. It's sadly not surprising how many people are killed on the roads.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#33

Post by TeMPOraL »

lechuga wrote: post #27
cmdrfred wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite, how does sending information vast distances instantly drive a car?

we're information

What if quantum waveforming magic turns out to be prohibitely expensive energy-wise? It may be that teleportation will be used between Earth and Mars, but self-driving cars will still roam the planet surface.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#34

Post by ajmurmann »

sundvor wrote: post #6
mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

The problem would be resolved quite nicely if all cars were self driving, interconnected, and could be governed by a master plan.

The possible improvements would truly need mind blowing. I can't even think of a reason why those cars would have to stop asking the way if everything goes right. There would be no more need for traffic lights or stop signs to coordinate traffic between cars. You would still need them for pedestrians. However, if the traffic lights are integrated I the same system as the cars then the cars can just adjust their speed to not have to stop at the light. Their gain in fuel efficiency would be huge! As long as nobody jaywalks or we have cross walks without traffic lights or bicycles..

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#36

Post by dalke »

raldi wrote: post #13
sundvor wrote: post #3

Well I for one would find a vehicle travelling at 40km/h in a 60 zone incredibly annoying, even if they're legally allowed to travel that slow.

How do you feel about cyclists on 35mph (60kph) roads?

Or people using a horse and cart.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#37

Post by lechuga »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #33
lechuga wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we're information

What if quantum waveforming magic turns out to be prohibitely expensive energy-wise? It may be that teleportation will be used between Earth and Mars, but self-driving cars will still roam the planet surface.

earth and the rest of the inner solar system will be strip-mined for materials to build solar collectors and autonomous robots

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#38

Post by ojbyrne »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #11

This car was driving a bit too conservatively: However, this highlights my own experience trying to follow traffic laws. First, speeding: I figured out that the time saved speeding wasnt enough to actually help - theoretically, I could save 2 minutes if things went well. It is upsetting when people follow laws and safety instead of normal local social driving standards. So long as we are mixing drivers and driverless…

I don't think that argument holds up under examination.

If you define safety as the risk of your car getting damaged, then maybe you reduce the probability of any kind of accident, without reference to severity.

But you define safety as the "risk and severity of injury,", as almost any person would, the slower you go, the safer you are, under all but a few scenarios, like driving below the posted speed limit on a highway.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#39

Post by mikekchar »

raldi wrote: post #13
sundvor wrote: post #3

Well I for one would find a vehicle travelling at 40km/h in a 60 zone incredibly annoying, even if they're legally allowed to travel that slow.

How do you feel about cyclists on 35mph (60kph) roads?

Banning cyclists on roads should be done based on road usage, not speed. There are lots of 60-80 kph roads that are perfectly safe to ride on and where you won't obstruct car traffic.

To be silly, I could turn the question around. How do you feel about cars on roads that are slower than 60 kph? We could ban cars on all residential roads and have wonderful walking/cycling communities. When I was living in the UK I was amazed at how many high streets have gone pedestrian. It has reinvigorated small towns.

Of course the problem is, "What happens if I can't get from A to B in my car?" I think for car drivers the idea of banning cars on residential roads makes this point very clear. The same thing happens with bicycles. In many cities it is impossible to get from point A to point B without a car. This encourages/forces cyclists to use inappropriate roads. As the sibling post notes, we need to do a better job of designing our cities.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#40

Post by _ph_ »

ygra wrote: post #18
sundvor wrote: post #3

Well I for one would find a vehicle travelling at 40km/h in a 60 zone incredibly annoying, even if they're legally allowed to travel that slow.

At least in Germany it's even disallowed to drive too slow without a good reason. Although "a good reason" is probably still open to interpretation.

Living in Germany, I never heard about anyone ticketed for this. The only case really covered by this rule is, that one drives extremely slow under good conditions. Otherwise, in many situations "safety" would be a good reason. And in general, you cannot be asked to drive faster than your car can go. With the exception of the Autobahn and a very few similar streets, the Google car would be legal to drive speed-wise, most tractors are even slower and road-legal.
Post reply on HN