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Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

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Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#31

Post by malcolmgreaves »

leed25d wrote: post #2

First of all, most titles --but by no means all-- are bullshit. I prefer titles like {Junior, Senior, Lead, Chief} Programmer or Member of Technical Staff (I, II, III, ...}. Although I have been assigned titles like DevOps, Engineer, Developer and so on, my Linked In profile reads 'Programmer'.

To me, saying "programmer" implies that one has no understanding of the crucial mathematics underlying the nature if computation. A programmer only knows how to slap together JS with the latest framework, throw it on top of RoR with code copied from a dozen SO posts, and say "job's done." An engineer uses mathematical reasoning and scientific knowledge to solve the problem. This is certainly a subtle difference. But it speaks volumes.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#32

Post by doug1001 »

leoc wrote: post #28
Turing_Machine wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention rock stars.

And do you really think it's wise to irritate dedicated, highly-skilled professionals in black pajamas? Just saying.

good point. http://www.theonion.com/article/disgruntled-ninja-silently-k...

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#33

Post by carsongross »

"It undermines a long tradition of designing and building infrastructure in the public interest."

"The traditional disciplines of engineering—civil, mechanical, aerospace, chemical, electrical, environmental—are civic professions as much as technical ones."

I would like to introduce the author to something called "Open" "Source":

https://github.com/explore

The server that his article is reaching the world via is almost certainly running multiple pieces of infrastructure designed and built in the public interest, and given away for free.

Software suffers from being universal, inexpensive and omnipresent, so people notice all the crap (I certainly bitch about software quality myself) while ignoring the thousand miracles per minute that it provides for us.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#34

Post by kayman »

I consider programmers as people who have learned the syntax of a language.

They did a quick "Program in in Days"

They don't understand too much about what's going on under the hood. Just press this and it happens.

Software Engineers on the other hand have a deeper understanding of software. They have studied the field and learned how a computer actually works from the bottom up. They understand assembly language, state machines, data structures, algorithms.

A programmer has trouble adjusting to the technological landscape as it evolves. A software engineer sees the evolution and can see why solution y is better than previous or if it's just marketing hype.

A true software engineer understands software is more than code.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#37

Post by cholantesh »

imgabe wrote: post #25

As a licensed Professional Engineer and wannabe programmer, this guy should get off his high horse. There's a difference between an engineer and a Professional Engineer. Much of the engineering industry, electrical, mechanical, chemical, etc. does not require licensure. It's only needed in specific industries where engineering services are offered directly to the public. I don't think anyone is confusing software eng…

>And building things in the public interest? Please. These things our built in our client's interest.

As soon as I read the tagline, I thought, "Surely he's presuming all engineering is civil engineering." That's the only way that argument holds.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#38

Post by verelo »

I would argue that the issue is not with the "programmers" but HR. I've had people hand me offer letters with "Software Engineer" written on it, but i do not hold an engineering degree (and i didn't ask for that title!)

Most of my Comp. Science friends have had the same experience, one went so far as to return the offer and replace the title with "Computer Scientist".

So HR, please stop calling Scientists (or in my case, people with incomplete degrees), Engineers.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#39

Post by peterburkimsher »

leed25d wrote: post #2

First of all, most titles --but by no means all-- are bullshit. I prefer titles like {Junior, Senior, Lead, Chief} Programmer or Member of Technical Staff (I, II, III, ...}. Although I have been assigned titles like DevOps, Engineer, Developer and so on, my Linked In profile reads 'Programmer'.

Titles are important for immigration purposes, e.g. for Canada's work-to-residence Express Entry visa.

Software engineer: 3-4 years work experience required, maybe Masters degree, professional certification. http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ProfileQuickSea...

Computer programmer: Bachelors degree required, no work experience. http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ProfileQuickSea...

"Progression to information systems analyst, software engineer or Web designer is possible with experience."

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