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Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

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Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#31

Post by zimbatm »

criddell wrote: post #8

I don't understand how Windows 10 can be used in a lot of small business environments. If you are big enough to get the enterprise version, everything apparently can be tweaked. But there are a lot of tiny businesses that order a PC from Dell, install some software for their vertical, and then do little more than regularly install updates. My old dentist was a two person operation. They aren't going to get the enterp…

Apple devices have the same issues but for some reason nobody is talking about it. Just install Little Snitch and you will see arrays of services trying to access apple.com. I don't think they are malicious but it makes the device super noisy and exfiltrates a lot of information.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#32

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

lvs wrote: post #20

What's amazing about this telemetry issue and the forced upgrade path is that, at the same time, they're trying to fight the PR problem by claiming that they might soon have a more reasonable FOSS (or at least OSS) mentality, will contribute to openssh, etc., all as part of their new "customer-oriented culture." It's really just a carrot-and-stick, isn't it?

It's more like carrot and nuclear fail bomb.

Is there anyone in MS management here who can explain how and why this is supposed to be a customer winning idea, and how it won't launch a stampede towards OS X and Linux?

"Okay, so we do the spying thing with everything you type. But - scout's honour - we don't do it all that much. Honest!"

Corporate dementia is becoming more and more of a problem in enterprise scale IT. HP, Yahoo, Apple, Oracle, IBM, and Google all suffer from it to varying degrees.

But MS appear to be trying to win a special best-in-class award for it.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#33

Post by coolnow »

pdkl95 wrote: post #22
coolnow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

1) wine is quite good these days. It has played far more than Source Engine games for like 5+ years. Ever since steam went to Linux and the Unity engine became popular, compatibility problems became much less common even on new games. 2) If you are always going to rank playing games as more important than spyware, then you're an easy mark. If you aren't willing to make a few sacrifices to invest in your future, then…

>Why do you care about spyware if games are more important?

I use my Windows machine for gaming only, whereas the rest of my computing is split between my MacBook and iPad.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#34

Post by rustynails77 »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #24

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but an honest discussion. Two words: Satya Nadella He seems even more tone-deaf than most CEOs, e.g. his comments about women asking for a raise in pay. So, here's the delicate question: is this cultural? He's originally "not from around here", but he's lived in the USA for at least 25 years. In contrast, Tim Cook seems to have staked out the opposite ground, i.e. that user privac…

I'm not a fan of Satya, but you are trying to start a flame war. This is what Satya is on record saying

"I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask."

He also said "[I] Was inarticulate re how women should ask for raise. Our industry must close gender pay gap so a raise is not needed because of a bias"

So you've made a conclusion because he said something that was wrong and silly. I would go as far so say that it's a big leap of faith that you've drawn, or that you're trying to be inflammatory on purpose.

Now it would be more accurate to say that Microsoft is seeing how much money Facebook and Google make from knowing people's secrets.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#35

Post by jakejake »

criddell wrote: post #8

I don't understand how Windows 10 can be used in a lot of small business environments. If you are big enough to get the enterprise version, everything apparently can be tweaked. But there are a lot of tiny businesses that order a PC from Dell, install some software for their vertical, and then do little more than regularly install updates. My old dentist was a two person operation. They aren't going to get the enterp…

Putting on my trusting hat, I would think that MS is only transmitting enough data to keep the machine running and virus free without any intervention from the non-technical people. So it would be a safe machine for a small company without any IT staff. A lot of those companies just take the computer out of the box and plug it in and don't do anything further anyway.

I don't see why they don't just add the option to disable that with appropriate labeling, though, if nothing else to satisfy the more vocal, privacy-concerned folks.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#36

Post by aikah »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #24

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but an honest discussion. Two words: Satya Nadella He seems even more tone-deaf than most CEOs, e.g. his comments about women asking for a raise in pay. So, here's the delicate question: is this cultural? He's originally "not from around here", but he's lived in the USA for at least 25 years. In contrast, Tim Cook seems to have staked out the opposite ground, i.e. that user privac…

> is this cultural?

Making it about one guy and his cultural background is a bit stupid, in my opinion.He is what, Indian? does it influence its way of thinking, maybe. Does that dictate Windows 10 strategy? no. This guy was mostly unknown before he becomes CEO of Microsoft, I always thought Sinofsky would take Balmer's job. My point is, MS board chose a rather "unknown to the public" and more discreet guy to represent MS in order to change the image of the brand. Which worked. Who came up with that new business model, we don't know, Nadella certainly vetted it though.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#38

Post by PhantomGremlin »

rustynails77 wrote: post #34
PhantomGremlin wrote: post #24

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but an honest discussion. Two words: Satya Nadella He seems even more tone-deaf than most CEOs, e.g. his comments about women asking for a raise in pay. So, here's the delicate question: is this cultural? He's originally "not from around here", but he's lived in the USA for at least 25 years. In contrast, Tim Cook seems to have staked out the opposite ground, i.e. that user privac…

I'm not a fan of Satya, but you are trying to start a flame war. This is what Satya is on record saying "I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask." He also said "[I] Was inarticulate re how women should ask for raise. Our ind…

It's not fair to quote Nadella saying "I was inarticulate". That comment only happened after, as Wikipedia puts it, "a strong backlash". Melissa Waggener (a very smart lady who I've met) probably gave him a good talking to.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#39

Post by AlexandrB »

bitL wrote: post #15

Microsoft has essentially forced me to turn off Windows Update on all my Windows 7 machines/partitions and migrate everything I can to Linux. All I am waiting for is SteamOS delivering AAA games to Linux and I won't need to touch future Windows ever again. How can you justify using Windows for enterprise work if due to new policies you can't be assured you can keep anything you work on secret? I am not willing to kee…

> Microsoft has essentially forced me to turn off Windows Update on all my Windows 7 machines/partitions...

Same here. It's very annoying that they're trying to force a major upgrade. I don't like Windows 10 - I don't like its frankenstein UI and I don't like its privacy implications and I find myself in the odd position of having to jump through hoops to keep it off my PCs.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#40

Post by aikah »

jakejake wrote: post #35
criddell wrote: post #8

I don't understand how Windows 10 can be used in a lot of small business environments. If you are big enough to get the enterprise version, everything apparently can be tweaked. But there are a lot of tiny businesses that order a PC from Dell, install some software for their vertical, and then do little more than regularly install updates. My old dentist was a two person operation. They aren't going to get the enterp…

Putting on my trusting hat, I would think that MS is only transmitting enough data to keep the machine running and virus free without any intervention from the non-technical people. So it would be a safe machine for a small company without any IT staff. A lot of those companies just take the computer out of the box and plug it in and don't do anything further anyway. I don't see why they don't just add the option to…

> I don't see why they don't just add the option to disable that with appropriate labeling, though, if nothing else to satisfy the more vocal, privacy-concerned folks.

Your last point basically contradicts the first one, IMHO, because you have an OS that itself becomes a giant spyware. You don't know what MS is doing with all that data. The could very well resell them to 3rd parties, give it to states, ...

And the "you can't turn that off" is obviously by design. You can't turn off a spyware.

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