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Does tech discriminate against suits?

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Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#31

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

cballard wrote: post #25
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

I think the problem is that most developers tend to be the nerdy types who didn't care much for fashion as a kid, or have the money in college to look good. Now they're in the workforce and they feel validated for dressing like shit: hoodies and pajamas are cute every once in a while but seriously, grow up and dress yourself like you're gonna get laid one of these days. The way I see it, if you code, chances are you'…

> Vest and tie? Lookin' good. No, this really looks genuinely terrible. Never wear a tie without a jacket. http://putthison.com/post/29635680290/q-and-answer-when-can-... > The answer is pretty much “I work at a cell phone store.” (vest without jacket is just as bad, except it's "I'm a waiter")

Exception: vest and tie with a stylish hat. Otherwise, yes, a suit is usually mandatory. I didn't expand on it for the sake of making my point. I'm glad some people on HN have fashion sense.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#32

Post by beachstartup »

Kalium wrote: post #18
btbuildem wrote: post #15

I like to wear my suit to work a few times per year, just on random days. I've been approached by higher ups more than once with the question "Are you interviewing somewhere else?" First time I got a kick out of it, but after reflecting decided that it was a good way to send a subtle message now and then.

I wear a suit every Friday. People definitely notice. It helps that I sit directly along the path between the entrance and the main work area in the main SF office. (And several coworkers probably suspect who I am. Hi!) It's prompted a fair number of wisecracks, but people seemed to have warmed to the idea that implicit dress codes don't need to be strict.

that's a neat trick. probably comes in handy for friday happy hour.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#33

Post by zyxley »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

I think the problem is that most developers tend to be the nerdy types who didn't care much for fashion as a kid, or have the money in college to look good. Now they're in the workforce and they feel validated for dressing like shit: hoodies and pajamas are cute every once in a while but seriously, grow up and dress yourself like you're gonna get laid one of these days. The way I see it, if you code, chances are you'…

Being conscious about your clothes really helps if you don't like dealing with fashion, paradoxically enough, since it means you can make your choices ahead of time. Try different things until you find one brand you really like, and then direct order different variations in that brand in the sizes that you already know fit you well.

To go a bit further, I have several completely identical pairs of wrinkle-free all-weather slacks in neutral colors that match with everything. They fit me well and look good on me - and now for most outfits I just don't have to think about what pants to wear.

Similarly, I've got a pair of waterproofed leather Oxfords that are nice enough for formal wear, low-key enough for casual wear, and sturdy (and grippy) enough for everything up to light hiking, so for most things I just can just wear the same pair of (very comfortably broken in) shoes.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#34

Post by Kalium »

beachstartup wrote: post #32
Kalium wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wear a suit every Friday. People definitely notice. It helps that I sit directly along the path between the entrance and the main work area in the main SF office. (And several coworkers probably suspect who I am. Hi!) It's prompted a fair number of wisecracks, but people seemed to have warmed to the idea that implicit dress codes don't need to be strict.

that's a neat trick. probably comes in handy for friday happy hour.

It probably would, if I was clever enough to go to any of those.

. . .

Maybe I should.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#35

Post by Kalium »

geebee wrote: post #22

Funny how things circle and change, and sometimes, like political parties, end up flipping completely over a generation or two. I suppose the original reason tech rebelled against the suit was because a suit represented conformity, an aggressively enforced dress code. Now, I suppose you could say that tech aggressively enforces a casual dress code, to the point where wearing a suit becomes an act non-conformity. I'm…

Personal anecdote time! My uncle is general counsel at a fairly conservative finance firm in FiDi. So he hits both banking and law. He once told me that it's due to tech culture informality that he doesn't have to wear a tie every day anymore.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#36

Post by nickpsecurity »

Nice write-up. Reminds me of the Steve Jobs portrayal on the excellent Pirates of Silicon Valley movie. Jobs and the other rebels mocked the "IBM types" in suits. Got nowhere in business world as "suits" dominated financing. Eventually, Jobs changes his appearance to look like a suit outwardly while inwardly being a rebel. Once successful, he reverts a bit to go back to rebellious appearance when inside of Apple while mocking IBM types and suits once again. While one suit with great poker skills, esp bluffing, straight up took his stuff and made a fortune off it working with other suits. That was Gates.

All in all, just goes to show that what a person could do was always more important than what they wore. Even worse, people often dress to deceive: pushing an image intended to influence observer for wearer's selfish benefit. Also called "dress for success." So, I have a bias where I watch out for that kind of thing. Interesting enough, Silicon Valley does the same thing with their dress styles aiming to fit in. Gets to the point that it's almost a survival strategy where people often wear expected stuff to avoid getting filtered out due to appearance.

Props to Greg for simply wearing what he liked and letting his actions speak louder than his words. He and Jonathan have nice suits, too. Reminds me I need to buy another one as I rarely wear a suit and occasionally like how it looks/feels. I'll be sure to get whatever style everyone else isn't wearing to satisfy the rebel in me. :)

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#37

Post by zyxley »

dragonwriter wrote: post #30
linkregister wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the way to wear dress clothes in the startup/tech environment is not to wear a simple two-piece suit. The folks in my office that get away with business attire wear more stylish items such as vests paired with unmatching slacks, coupled with a bold-print shirt. These kinds of looks look way more difficult to create than going to Brooks Brothers and asking for two suits. One legitimate reason why I would expe…

> One legitimate reason why I would expect suit-wearers to be challenged is the fear of formal wear being required in the office. Business suits are business wear, not formal wear, which is a whole different category of clothing. Formal wear being required in the office would be a very odd thing, indeed.

> Formal wear being required in the office would be a very odd thing, indeed.

"I know it's inconvenient sometimes, but you would not believe how cheap it was to rent out this extra space from the local symphony orchestra."

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#38

Post by vinceguidry »

I've noticed it's less about the suit and more about the tie. If I wear a suit without a tie to work, I get some compliments, but when I wear a tie, with or without a suit, the CEO will start joking that I'm going to a job interview later on.

A suit is just clothes. A tie is a statement.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#39

Post by dragonwriter »

cballard wrote: post #25
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

I think the problem is that most developers tend to be the nerdy types who didn't care much for fashion as a kid, or have the money in college to look good. Now they're in the workforce and they feel validated for dressing like shit: hoodies and pajamas are cute every once in a while but seriously, grow up and dress yourself like you're gonna get laid one of these days. The way I see it, if you code, chances are you'…

> Vest and tie? Lookin' good. No, this really looks genuinely terrible. Never wear a tie without a jacket. http://putthison.com/post/29635680290/q-and-answer-when-can-... > The answer is pretty much “I work at a cell phone store.” (vest without jacket is just as bad, except it's "I'm a waiter")

> (vest without jacket is just as bad, except it's "I'm a waiter")

Pretty much only if it is a black vest with black pants and black tie and black or white shirt.

Re: Does tech discriminate against suits?

#40

Post by klipt »

maldusiecle wrote: post #24

A photo caption from the article: "Silicon Valley vs Mad Men — who would you rather be?" But Mad Men is a show largely about its characters' bad behavior--their casual bigotry, crass money-grubbing, etc. If you're wearing a suit because you want to be Don Draper, you're not just a poor interpreter of television; you're probably a pretty poor excuse for a person. I don't have anything against suits, per se. I'd point…

Maybe the grim lesson is that a crass bigot in a suit gets better treatment than a decent person in casual.
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