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Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

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Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/listenrightmeow/dbot http://pgarbe.github.io/blog/2015/03/24/how-to-run-hubot-in-... There are a couple articles/repos out there with detailed steps on running Hubot on AWS. While the ease and simplicity of deploying Hubot outside of Heroku is not a tenth as easy, there are a couple of options out there.

I guess I'm lazy and want an apt-get/yum/brew recipe. What if I have to install it on iron behind a corporate firewall?

Then you just follow the installation instructions on your iron behind your corporate firewall: https://hubot.github.com/docs/

My team controls our hubots on iron behind a firewall with hubot-control, which can also create hubots for you too: https://github.com/spajus/hubot-control

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine meritocracy would ideally see women in positions roughly commensurate to their percentage of the population (~50.8%). There are a lot of reasons why we don't see that, and those reasons shape choices made by, available to, and expected of women well before they ever get to the point where they're applying for a position at Github or any other tech company. I think a lot of the criticism of Github's rug went f…

> Genuine meritocracy would ideally see women in positions roughly commensurate to their percentage of the population i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits. Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word "meritocracy" ? > a lot of those earlier factors that push far too many women away from math, science, and technology while t…

> i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits.

If we take a random, representative sample of people, we're going to see women make up approximately 50.8% of that sample. Positions aren't assigned on the basis of that percentage; rather, it just works out that they'd match it overall across an industry. Or it would, and that was my point. Differences in individual workplace makeup are deviations away from that, for whatever reasons you have (say, the gender split amongst CS graduates and other factors that contribute to it and the numbers we see today).

> Yes, they are.

That was a rather poor word choice on my part. That sentence consisted of a series of historical examples of rationals used when describing women as lesser beings for various reasons. When I wrote "different," I was thinking specifically of arguments used against women's suffrage movements on the basis of irrationality. Even more obvious arguments can be found in how common diagnoses of "female hysteria" by the European medical community for centuries. Even the word hysteria comes from the Greek hystera, meaning womb. The precursor of those arguments--the so-called wandering womb--dates back to at least Hippocrates. Plato later describes the theory in the Timaeus, and Aretaeus after him. The medical community never really managed to escape the theory until relatively recently. It's actually a really fascinating history; if you're interested, Hysteria: The disturbing history by Andrew Scull is an excellent introduction to how the disease of hysteria changed over time, eventually fading altogether as we learned more about the human mind.

I guess my point is that there's a huge difference between historical views of the female mind (and its differences) compared to how neuroscientists approach the question today. You're absolutely right in that sense; chemical and structural differences might affect how information and sense input is processed, but the current body of research doesn't recognize that as indicating a difference in ability or even capability. Chalk this up to a poorly written sentence on my part with my apologies.

> If you believe the American Association of University women, they "wage gap" is about 6%. Not 77% like it's widely (and falsely) reported.

One of the reasons why I said to set questions of wage aside is precisely for this reason. The 77% number comes from BLS statistics, but those numbers are in aggregate and making comparisons from that is intellectually dishonest at best. But it's a very easy mistake to make, precisely because the caveats behind that number are so complex.

There are a lot of very significant factors that have to be accounted for, and the top-line numbers can't do that by their very nature. Career choice is one of the largest: what cultural factors push women towards one career and men towards another--and how early do those factors start influencing people's own choices and self-images? Just look at the nursing field and how it's shifting from its historical, almost all-female makeup. While I don't really think it's relevant to the discussion, Blau and Kahn expand on the points raised by the AAUW article if you're interested:

http://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_media/pdf/key_issues/ge...

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm lazy and want an apt-get/yum/brew recipe. What if I have to install it on iron behind a corporate firewall?

Then you just follow the installation instructions on your iron behind your corporate firewall: https://hubot.github.com/docs/ My team controls our hubots on iron behind a firewall with hubot-control, which can also create hubots for you too: https://github.com/spajus/hubot-control

Right, but then you need some kind of deployment adaptor to do something useful (like deploying apps) -- Heaven's the recommended one, but

> Heaven is a rails app that was designed to be hosted on heroku. https://github.com/atmos/heaven/blob/master/doc/installation...

Now we've got dependencies on node, npm, ruby, rails, heroku, some datastore, a queue for hubot, whatever your actual builder is (capistrano/chef/whatever) etc etc.

Right now I do all this with Jenkins+bash scripts. Inelegant and not as robust as I'd prefer, but so simple. I could just use a Jenkins adaptor for hubot, but then what's the point? I want locking environments, advanced permissions, and so forth.

I'm mostly complaining because I'm dying to implement chatops (mostly for slack-based deployments) but the information is really light, or the tools are too environment-specific, and I don't have people to bounce ideas/questions off of.

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#34
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One time I asked why, since cgroups and the pattern of container based deployment had been popular for a decade before Docker started, that containers are so popular right now. We ultimately decided that someone constructing a really easy to use suite of tools around the concept was the reason it has all this love and growth. Not that I totally disagree, but, signing up for Slack is easier than using NickServ for the…

Replacing RSS with walled-gardens solutions from Internet Bigcos is another example. In general I agree that ease-of-use is a big factor. Having said that, I was witness to decidedly non-technical teens in a mid-size town quite happily using mIRC in 2004, so maybe we're not giving people quite enough credit. If you tell people something is hard to use they'll believe you. The real lesson is to look into what has been…

My friend's mom used irc in the 90's / early 2000's for dating chatrooms. IRC can be plugged into the browser and embedded into applications seamlessly.

In contrast, I've never even heard of all the things mentioned above.

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuine meritocracy would ideally see women in positions roughly commensurate to their percentage of the population i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits. Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word "meritocracy" ? > a lot of those earlier factors that push far too many women away from math, science, and technology while t…

> i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits. If we take a random, representative sample of people, we're going to see women make up approximately 50.8% of that sample. Positions aren't assigned on the basis of that percentage; rather, it just works out that they'd match it overall across an industry. Or it would, and that was my point.…

Moreover meritocracy doesn't mean having equal number of people at the top, it means equal chances for people to climb up the ladder. After one workplace generation, proportions will be equal. And them not being equal today doesn't equate women are discriminated (In fact, career is much quicker for a woman today than for a man).

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#36
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuine meritocracy would ideally see women in positions roughly commensurate to their percentage of the population i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits. Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word "meritocracy" ? > a lot of those earlier factors that push far too many women away from math, science, and technology while t…

> i.e. meritocracy means having people in positions based on their incidence in the general population... not on their merits. If we take a random, representative sample of people, we're going to see women make up approximately 50.8% of that sample. Positions aren't assigned on the basis of that percentage; rather, it just works out that they'd match it overall across an industry. Or it would, and that was my point.…

> If we take a random, representative sample of people, we're going to see women make up approximately 50.8% of that sample.

Sure. If we take a random, representative sample of people. But you weren't talking about people in general. You were talking about a meritocracy. Which is very, very, different.

You also ignored my point about men obsessing about science and tech, and women not. Which says to me you don't have an argument against it.

People complain that men obsess about their work. That they're work-aholics. And who is more likely to be CEO? Someone who works 16 hours a day, or someone who goes home to spend time with the kids?

Your statement insinuates that the distribution of people in the general population should be the same as the distribution of people in any sub-set of that population. That is naive at best.

The top weightlifters? All men. Child-bearers? All women.

These differences aren't trivial. It is a fundamental denial of reality to wave them away.

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#37
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean having a bot? I can't see how having a botnet would be relevant or helpful.

No, I'm referring to a botnet. In the OP case we've got just a single bot which controls things, I'm more thinking 1 bot per server sort of thing so you can administer individual servers simply by directing messages at them. Server goes down? You see it quit on IRC or send an alert message nickalerting relevant admins when a service halts. Need live information on just about anything, just direct a message to a given…

check out https://github.com/andyleap/srvbot. Still needs to do real time handling, but you can run commands on multiple servers and optionally receive output

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#38
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm referring to a botnet. In the OP case we've got just a single bot which controls things, I'm more thinking 1 bot per server sort of thing so you can administer individual servers simply by directing messages at them. Server goes down? You see it quit on IRC or send an alert message nickalerting relevant admins when a service halts. Need live information on just about anything, just direct a message to a given…

check out https://github.com/andyleap/srvbot . Still needs to do real time handling, but you can run commands on multiple servers and optionally receive output

well, logging is now handled, so that's fun :)

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#39
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything old on IRC is new again. I read an article about Slack that praised their speed of integrating feedback and iterating with the following example: "the Slack team quickly identified small changes that had a big impact: Within the list of channels, they added fields for a description and the number of people using that channel."

One time I asked why, since cgroups and the pattern of container based deployment had been popular for a decade before Docker started, that containers are so popular right now. We ultimately decided that someone constructing a really easy to use suite of tools around the concept was the reason it has all this love and growth. Not that I totally disagree, but, signing up for Slack is easier than using NickServ for the…

The problem with IRC was the channel wars, the hierarchy of founder, ops, +v, etc, and the crazy medieval hierarchy that ensued from it.

The easy of use of bots and flooding scripts was a downside, not an advantage.

Any web page that embedded IRC had to deal with that nonsense.

Re: Hubot, “the hardest working GitHubber”

#40
post #39
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One time I asked why, since cgroups and the pattern of container based deployment had been popular for a decade before Docker started, that containers are so popular right now. We ultimately decided that someone constructing a really easy to use suite of tools around the concept was the reason it has all this love and growth. Not that I totally disagree, but, signing up for Slack is easier than using NickServ for the…

The problem with IRC was the channel wars, the hierarchy of founder, ops, +v, etc, and the crazy medieval hierarchy that ensued from it. The easy of use of bots and flooding scripts was a downside, not an advantage. Any web page that embedded IRC had to deal with that nonsense.

On Slack the channel owner will form a hierarchy too, if it's less problematic it's because Slack is usually used in a professional setting where flaming is generally frowned upon. You see these kind of issues pop up on the easy-to-use Twitter as well.

It's a social question. The most the tech did wrong was not making flooding impossible in the first place.

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