Live data from Hacker News

Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

codeinpython.blogspot.com

31–40 of 123 posts

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#31
The next part is to set the price for the job. Usually I would say: Ok, data scrape will cost you $75.

That's still ridiculously low by any measure. I wouldn't take you seriously at that price point. Because, here is why: I was charging that much 5 or 6 years ago.

How about $7,500 for manual data scraping?

On a related note. A friend of mine asked the other day if I can develop for him a GPS/Google maps solution that would take 6 months to develop for a serious Full-Stack developer.

He works on a multi-billion dollar company but he wants the solution for himself to show off his productivity to his bosses. He wants it on a "$50" budget.

I'm guessing you have fallen at the same scenario where the lady is paying it from her pocket instead of big corp bank account.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#33
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? What is ideal for Bay Area? Most startups I see have salaries around ~$80k (~$32/hr for 48hr week or ~$40/hr for 40hr week)

You realize that the $80,000 includes completely free health care (otherwise $300 a month minimum, if not more if they offer a good plan) with no employee contribution, free dental ($20 a month?), $300 towards vision a year, minimal life insurance maybe, free meals at the office, etc. Not to mention that you get sick pay, holiday pay, retirement account contributions, etc. Including the benefits it easily adds up to…

Are there any payroll taxes on top of that salary number? Where I live (Belgium) there's a 33% (probably being lowered to 25% soon) social security tax paid by the employer.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#34
post #31

The next part is to set the price for the job. Usually I would say: Ok, data scrape will cost you $75. That's still ridiculously low by any measure. I wouldn't take you seriously at that price point. Because, here is why: I was charging that much 5 or 6 years ago. How about $7,500 for manual data scraping? On a related note. A friend of mine asked the other day if I can develop for him a GPS/Google maps solution that…

I clicked through the the article, verified that the title was the same as HN, read the early line "Couple days ago some R.D. from United States contacted me. She wanted to do website scrape.". I stopped reading. Clickbait, ignorant of real freelance work, thinks being contacted about a pathetic scraping job means freelance is worthless? Give me a break. Become a real developer who can find real clients worth the effort, and freelance is 100% viable. How the hell is this getting any traction? Puh-please.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#35
I've been working as a freelancer for a bit more than a year now and let me offer a counter perspective.

This article is a report from the absolute bottom. Part of the problem is the clientele: data scraping jobs are the shadiest, worst-paid jobs you can take on as a programmer. Also, offering the client to pay what they think is fair is a monumentally bad idea.

The bigger problem is the perception of value. I regularly get requests for doing insane amounts of work (usually it involves cloning a multi-million dollar site or app) for less than I charge for a single day. There are "idea people" out there, who think the goal to success is paying someone 300 bucks to implement a clone of the Android app store. It's a real example by the way. I mainly get my work through the Who Is Hiring thread on HN, and although the overall client quality has been high, it's unavoidable that over half of all requests are absolute bogus.

I suspect I'm not the only one having this experience. Now, these inquiries can be effortlessly ignored (I usually do answer them back with or without a short statement why I'm not taking the job) - however, if you're just scraping by, these "gigs" can totally demoralize you.

To an average person, programming is not a valuable thing, and they do not view it as skilled labour. This has been the case for as long as I can remember. After high school, twenty years ago, a friend and I got into freelancing. A lot of inquiries were pretty much the same as they are now. My friend used to say we should rebrand ourselves as the Web Sherpas, named after the local people who often get hired for grating or dangerous work on behalf of tourists yet receive little compensation for it.

To the freelancer just starting out I say: don't get suckered into these kinds of debates, be friendly but firm in rejecting malicious "job offers". Holding out until the right client comes along can be tough, and you're going to need a financial buffer to do this. But it's definitely the only way to go. People taking $15/hour data scraping jobs are part of the problem because they help distort the value perception of our profession (plus they help making the internet a worse place). Don't be that person.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#36

People are going to try their luck in negotiations. That's what they do. "Would $15 be fair to you for this category?" Counter-offer with something that you think reflects the value you're going to provide. Will she take it? Maybe yes, maybe no - you get idiots in every line of work. If she doesn't take it, and you're dealing honestly, it's her loss. At the end of the day though, you did let her open. That's kinda on…

I'm a bit confused on that part though, the offer says $15/hour, why did the author write as if the the offer was $3/hour? Isn't that the pay for manual data entry?

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#37
post #5
post #3

Is there much of a difference between freelancing and software contracting? I've met a handful people who are part of a company (read: agency) of 1-5 and making really good money ($60/hr+). But they're also in the Bay Area.

$60/hr is not particularly good money in the Bay Area.

Without bennies it's actually kind of bad.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#38
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the $80,000 includes completely free health care (otherwise $300 a month minimum, if not more if they offer a good plan) with no employee contribution, free dental ($20 a month?), $300 towards vision a year, minimal life insurance maybe, free meals at the office, etc. Not to mention that you get sick pay, holiday pay, retirement account contributions, etc. Including the benefits it easily adds up to…

Are there any payroll taxes on top of that salary number? Where I live (Belgium) there's a 33% (probably being lowered to 25% soon) social security tax paid by the employer.

In the US your employer pays around 15% of your salary as tax. If you're not working for someone else that's an extra 15.3% you have to pay - it's called "self employment tax".

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#39
post #31

The next part is to set the price for the job. Usually I would say: Ok, data scrape will cost you $75. That's still ridiculously low by any measure. I wouldn't take you seriously at that price point. Because, here is why: I was charging that much 5 or 6 years ago. How about $7,500 for manual data scraping? On a related note. A friend of mine asked the other day if I can develop for him a GPS/Google maps solution that…

People want stuff for free. The web is free. They expect next to free for skills that take at least 10 years to actually master. Skill level similar to a doctor.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#40
Upwork is basically where businesses and entrepreneurs go to outsource work to people living in countries with a lower cost of living. It's a place that's excellent for startups who know how to extract maximum value from foreign workers (I've seen people making upwards of 10,000+% profit from doing this which is honestly crazy) but terrible for the workers themselves. Well ... at least in some instances.

As far as I can tell: most of the jobs on offer at Upwork can be done by complete amateurs but that isn't necessarily the quality you can expect. They have some pretty amazing virtual assistants and not everyone there does mediocre work. Just don't expect to earn a Western wage there without substantial effort (there are US companies who hire in staff as needed but these jobs are like drops of water in the desert.)

Post reply on HN