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What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

nytimes.com

31–40 of 437 posts

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#31

I know I am in a great work place when I don't know all the characters in Star Wars but still feel included.

I have to admit, I'm kind of sick and tires of this fanatic mania of an obsession with fantasy stories. It's like some retarded fixation. It's so obsessive and annoying when someone makes a trite star wars reference and everyone laughs or feels compelled to laugh

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#32
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been on the receiving end of both from my childhood peers; a punch doesn't hurt the next day.

Are you saying that boy nerds don't also get ostracized?

Exactly the opposite of what I am saying. I wasn't considering the gender of the victim in that comment - rather the relative effectiveness of the victimization tools typically used by genders at that age. I was calling myself out as a non-typical case which received both (as a boy) only to point out exactly how one can just walk away from a punch in the face.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#33
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been on the receiving end of both from my childhood peers; a punch doesn't hurt the next day.

Are you saying that boy nerds don't also get ostracized?

Furthermore, if someone puts up a movie poster because they've finally found a "safe space" then who is the author of the article to take that away from them?

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#34
post #10
post #5

We've known this for a while, it boils down to: barbies. Fixing this problem is really, really hard. Assuming I gave my daughters equal access to both barbies and chemistry kits, which would they choose? Kids want to fit in with their friends. Boy nerds get beaten up, girl nerds get ostracised. What does that lead to? The child choosing their gender stereotype (applies both ways) so that they can fit in. It's what th…

"Boys get toy cars AND sewing kits." So to fix problems you would screw Boys aka male gender ? How much retard are you ?

We've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#35

> What really keeps women out of Tech? It is because they don't want to be there. The opportunity is there for everyone to take thus men and women. I actually think women have an advantage in this space and it is up to them to see it and advantage of it. As a woman, I am tired this. If you want it, go and get it. There shouldn't be any special treatment. Prove you deserve to be at the table, prove you deserve to be t…

This is too generic a comment to count as substantive discussion. It would be better if it engaged with the specific content of the article.

Edit: When I posted this, the comment consisted entirely of its first paragraph.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#36
> female students are more interested...if they are shown a classroom...decorated not with “Star Wars” posters, science-fiction books, computer parts and tech magazines, but with a more neutral décor

> If the actor wore a T-shirt that said “I CODE THEREFORE I AM” and claimed to enjoy video games, the students expressed less interest in studying computer science than if the actor wore a solid shirt and claimed to enjoy hanging out with friends

So all we need to do is overhaul computer science's anti-women culture is remove computer magazines, computer parts, computer games, futurism, and coding.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#37
post #7

if they are shown a classroom (whether virtual or real) decorated not with “Star Wars” posters, science-fiction books, computer parts and tech magazines, but with a more neutral décor — art and nature posters, coffee makers, plants and general-interest magazines This would seem to be a bit of a bait-and-switch... If you aren't interested in "computer parts and tech magazines" then what exactly is it about computing t…

If you aren't interested in "computer parts and tech magazines" then what exactly is it about computing that makes you want to do it?

I am a woman with a Certificate in GIS. I know some HTML and CSS. I run some blogs.

I joined an email list -- a parenting/homeschooling list -- when my now 28 year old son was 11. It led to me becoming a moderator of an email list for a time. My advice was seemingly popular on that list. Someone liked my writing and wanted to put some of it on their website. Later, she helped me move that to a site of my own and take over the coding.

There are things I would like to do in this world to help other people -- to educate them, to empower them to solve hard personal problems. I joined Hacker News in hopes of eventually learning to write code to do that. So far, life has gotten in the way.

My two adult sons are masters of framing traditionally male interests in a way that appeals to me. My oldest son got me playing Master of Magic -- now one of my favorite games -- by telling me "It's like SimCity" and then helping me to play it in a way that appealed to my interest in civilization building. My sons want to make video games for a living. If things work out, I may join them in that endeavor at some point.

Having girly motivations does not mean writing code is of no interest to you. You can be interested in people or whatever and see code as a way to accomplish your goals. Mulan is the single best movie I know of that portrays a woman having success in a man's world doing a man's job for girly reasons: She loved her father. She felt guilty that she was a daughter and not a son. If she had been born a boy, she would have been conscripted, not him. So she went in his place -- and saved a nation, to keep her beloved family member alive.

You can be a girly girl and love someone enough that you would murder others over it. We aren't all helpless whiny crybabies. Sometimes, doing things like a girl makes you a total badass.

But there are serious "marketing" problems with how we approach the problem space currently.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#38
post #5

We've known this for a while, it boils down to: barbies. Fixing this problem is really, really hard. Assuming I gave my daughters equal access to both barbies and chemistry kits, which would they choose? Kids want to fit in with their friends. Boy nerds get beaten up, girl nerds get ostracised. What does that lead to? The child choosing their gender stereotype (applies both ways) so that they can fit in. It's what th…

Yep.. Read the comments on stories like this

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/08/09/tar...

Target tries to make one step in the right direction (like making sure a chemistry set is not labeled as a BOYS chemistry set) and people respond with:

"You liberal POS idiots are ruining this Country. Just because you morons don't want to think there are boys and girls, doesn't mean the rest of us with a brain have to think in your warped ways."

"Complete stupidity. I want my girls and boys to identify with their gender."

"This is stupid! So you think my grandson's wants to sleep on a frozen bed set made for girls and my granddaughters wants to sleep on spiderman bed sets. I don't think so. You better leave well enough along before you lose your business."

"This is just stupid. Kids are being taught not be them selves such as a true boy or a true girl. Men now a days are not men, they are girly men. A lot of women are not women they are trying so hard to fit into a mans world. Leave kids to b kids please. Pinks and blues do not hurt any one!"

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#39
This article is discursive. It talks about modern issues we need to deal with (current image of computer scientists), but then goes into an outdated story of direct harassment she received at Oak Ridge. The latter is irrelevant to discussion at hand.

Re: What Really Keeps Women Out of Tech

#40
post #5

We've known this for a while, it boils down to: barbies. Fixing this problem is really, really hard. Assuming I gave my daughters equal access to both barbies and chemistry kits, which would they choose? Kids want to fit in with their friends. Boy nerds get beaten up, girl nerds get ostracised. What does that lead to? The child choosing their gender stereotype (applies both ways) so that they can fit in. It's what th…

> Boy nerds get beaten up, girl nerds get ostracised. Exactly: both boys and girls get strong negative feedback for being nerdy. Yet, somehow more boys are sufficiently interested that they find their interest more important than the negative feedback.

this point is explored in the article and seems a good point is made: nerd male still have a stereotype to conform in the culture and set of social rule/standing to navigate relationship, especially promoting late career 'wins'; girls don't.

of course as this is the experience as reported from the author, it is at most anecdotal, but it's interesting and actually could be a good starting point for further inquiry.

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