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18F launches cloud.gov

18f.gsa.gov

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Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

plonh wrote: post #6

This is cool, but,...18F are consultants, who pop in, wave a magic wand, and pop out. Many of its employees are.bound by law to a max 2 or 4 year term. Will cloud.gov support its users for 5, 10, 15 years?

> This is cool, but,...18F are consultants, who pop in, wave a magic wand, and pop out.

My understanding is that some of what 18F does is short-term, project-based consulting for other government agencies, but that that isn't all of what 18F does.

The limited employment term things is a real concern for non-consulting, ongoing functions, but may have salutary effects, if it means that design for shared maintainability and succession planning aren't the kind of afterthoughts that they are many places in government.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#32

Post by aidanfeldman »

sailfast wrote: post #25
wpears wrote: post #16

The video at the "byzantine regulatory framework" link[1] is worth a watch (at least the first 10 minutes to get a taste). One of the most valuable offerings of cloud.gov is (hopefully) the ease with which it can go through the ATO and FISMA processes because it was designed with them in mind. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1S52B1-NT4

I'm not sure how this will expedite the ATO process as it uses technology that has not been STIG'd yet and may not have a "by the book" way to sign off (Docker, for instance, can be painful to ATO). EDIT: After viewing Noah's FISMA guidance vid (nice work) there is definitely possibility to expedite but to really grease things you'd want to create a certification arm within GSA that can sign off the risk or perform a…

Those teams definitely exist in agencies (GSA included), but we (18F) are managing ATOs internally for our projects, and are working on tooling to clarify, simplify, and automate the process. https://github.com/18F/control-masonry/ is our first project around this.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#34

Post by sswezey »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4
jstanley wrote: post #2

For those who don't know: "18F is a digital services agency built on the lean startup model based within the United States federal government." (wikipedia)

They're also critical for the work the US Digital Service is doing to revamp how technology services are delivered in the federal government. EDIT: USDS/18F folks, you're doing phenomenal work. Thank you.

What is the difference between the USDS and 18F, it seems like a blurred line.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#35

Post by pc86 »

Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #30
cryowaffle wrote: post #10

Glad to see the healthcare.gov debacle leading to a positive shift in mentality at .gov.

As someone who worked in the Federal sphere, nothing's changed at all. The same procurement rules and regulations remain in place with all the issues they cause. 18F is a nice experiment, and they do have some wins, but they are just a drop in the bucket. The whole procurement and management process is so broken that it's a wonder any project gets completed. The same few bad actors keep winning contracts over and ove…

I'm inclined to agree, but I have two questions regarding that:

1. Aren't government positions notoriously underpaid compared to their private-sector counterparts? 2. Doesn't that mean that "government software" would end up being written by below-average developers and be significantly worse than private-sector software?

Not that #2 isn't possible/likely/a fact under the current system depending on who you speak to.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#36

Post by Jemmeh »

jstanley wrote: post #2

For those who don't know: "18F is a digital services agency built on the lean startup model based within the United States federal government." (wikipedia)

I hope I'm not the only one who thought the headline was someone trying to be hip while saying 18 year old female. (Dr Evil: I'm hip, I'm cool. I'm with it!)

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#37

Post by jdmichal »

sswezey wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also critical for the work the US Digital Service is doing to revamp how technology services are delivered in the federal government. EDIT: USDS/18F folks, you're doing phenomenal work. Thank you.

What is the difference between the USDS and 18F, it seems like a blurred line.

Seems like it's mostly a philosophical difference. Two directions to the same goal.

http://ben.balter.com/2015/04/22/the-difference-between-18f-...

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#38

Post by timdorr »

sswezey wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also critical for the work the US Digital Service is doing to revamp how technology services are delivered in the federal government. EDIT: USDS/18F folks, you're doing phenomenal work. Thank you.

What is the difference between the USDS and 18F, it seems like a blurred line.

The USDS is part of the White House. They are directly under the President.

18F is basically a contracting agency, run by and for the government. They basically take on work that's assigned to them by the USDS. The USDS does work as well, but typically more with a leadership and policy role.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#39

Post by parasubvert »

Interesting to see Cloud Foundry take off this year after many years of being more of a curiosity on its own island.

I personally didn't get it until I saw Docker a couple of years ago and wondered "how will we operate all of these apps, services or even the servers they run on without playing yet another shell game and resorting back to traditional shit IT?". And that brought me back to Cloud Foundry and BOSH, to the point where I quit my old job and joined Pivotal.

Re: 18F launches cloud.gov

#40

Post by wslack »

dragonwriter wrote: post #31
plonh wrote: post #6

This is cool, but,...18F are consultants, who pop in, wave a magic wand, and pop out. Many of its employees are.bound by law to a max 2 or 4 year term. Will cloud.gov support its users for 5, 10, 15 years?

> This is cool, but,...18F are consultants, who pop in, wave a magic wand, and pop out. My understanding is that some of what 18F does is short-term, project-based consulting for other government agencies, but that that isn't all of what 18F does. The limited employment term things is a real concern for non-consulting, ongoing functions, but may have salutary effects, if it means that design for shared maintainabilit…

It also is a natural defense against ossification.
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