What is the difference between this exchange and say, Coinbase, that makes it "next generation"? The website is very light on details.
From Tyler Winklevoss's answer on the Product Hunt page for Gemini: "Gemini is a New York state limited liability trust company, we did not apply for or have a BitLicense which is a much lower standard. As a limited liability trust company we are a fiduciary, which allows us to accept both individual and institutional customers under New York Banking Law (unlike the BitLicense, which does not convey such fiduciary po…
Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
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Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#32Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#33Very slick identity verification process. Instead of requiring a scan of your driver's license or other identifying document, they ask you for questions about your history. I've seen a similar process used at etrade.
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#34I'm a little disappointed that they only have level 2[1] HSMs in the cloud, as I would be uncomfortable protecting my hot wallet keys with only tamper evident protections, rather than level 3+ that actually attempt to detect intrusion and delete keys. Bitcoin makes for very quick stealing once you have keys, so reactive defenses against key loss don't help much as you're literally in a race condition with the attacker to empty the wallet (you into a non-compromised one, the attacker into their own). But I would assume they weighed cost/risk and I've never heard of a security compromise of Amazon's HSMs so it was probably a reasonable choice.
edit: I should also applaud their use of PGP and (explicit) respect for responsible disclosure.
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
From Tyler Winklevoss's answer on the Product Hunt page for Gemini: "Gemini is a New York state limited liability trust company, we did not apply for or have a BitLicense which is a much lower standard. As a limited liability trust company we are a fiduciary, which allows us to accept both individual and institutional customers under New York Banking Law (unlike the BitLicense, which does not convey such fiduciary po…
So the difference is that they're trying to play nice with regulators from day 1, rather than breaking the rules and rolling with the legal punches in order to serve early adopters?
Not running a bitcoin cafe out of customer funds...
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#36Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it is written fairly. Bitcoins and not dollars, and the rest of those things you listed that are covered by FDIC insurance are denominated in dollars. If someone (not you specifically) cannot understand the difference between dollars and bitcoins, they shouldn't be trading currencies.
Well, some people want exposure to bitcoins without necessarily understanding the block chain, recourse or anything really. That's the whole pitch behind everything the Winklevosses do in this domain. That's why they opened a bitcoin exchange traded fund and that's probably their rationale behind this exchange. Saying that "your dollars are eligible for FDIC insurance and never leave the country" makes someone think…
Yes and no. They initially wanted to open up the bitcoin market to institutional investors who want exposure without having to change anything in the trading software they use, the accounting structures etc. This meant: provide a bitcoin security that can be traded by wall street typically, such as an ETF on the NYSE or NASDAQ or something to that effect.
Barry Silbert's Second Market (definitely a wall street player) got there first in terms of accounting structures. They created a bitcoin security that anyone can buy and put on the books just like any other security (like some oil or wheat derivatives or whatever). But that was still sort of an old-fashion security that you buy on the phone rather than on an automated exchange. Not something that pension funds, university endowment funds etc can easily get into and scale up, but it opened up the bitcoin market to say small family wealth funds that wanted some exposure to the bitcoin price. Bitcoin is one of those things that is likely to either go to $0 or become 3 orders of magnitude more valuable. So if you believe there's a 10% chance that'll happen, investing $100k has an expected value of $9.9m, of course these are just made up numbers but this is often the rationale for investing even modest amounts of money. Silbert's GBTC (marketed under Grayscale) did fairly well but in wall street terms it's a really tiny fund (iirc about $50m or so).
The 'holy grail' for bitcoin investment right now would probably be an ETF. Basically the above security, but then traded on an exchange, a derivative of bitcoins trading on mainstream exchanges (i.e. exposure to bitcoin's price potential traded on exchanges where anyone can easily and automatically buy in without having to know anything about bitcoin or change accounting/audit practices). The Winklevoss's pitch was always to set up that ETF, which they're still working on, and the fact they just launched a normal exchange tells me they're either 1) building up the orderbooks, building relations with investors and building up liquidity etc a bit for a potential ETF launch later down the line or 2) the ETF is facing major, perhaps insurmountable roadblocks so they're pivoting to something less ambitious which is launch their own exchange. (which generally sucks because 1) there are major established players, like Coinbase, which are true software companies with half a billion dollar valuations, solid engineering teams and a big headstart, and 2) because none of the big players, like an investment fund, will be likely to register for your tiny exchange just to trade some bitcoin. They did get a lot of the legal frameworks right though, so it may be an interesting partner for investors nonetheless.)
As for security... well bitcoins are obviously not FDIC insured, but their security looks really tight, I'd feel very comfortable trading with them. [0][1] They still offer the 'you don't need to know anything about bitcoin or worry about security' pitch, but you still need to register with them rather than just select their security on the NYSE and click 'buy', and that doesn't fly for most big investment funds with strict auditing and accounting practices and automated trading teams. We'll see how it works out.
[0] https://exchange.gemini.com/security [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3nu7gj/we_are_cameron...
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#38Accepting pre-paid cards is fine too
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#39Not operational in Texas yet, apparently.
Re: Winklevoss Twins’ Bitcoin Exchange
#40They have a reassuring security page[0]. It's nice to see they're enforcing good practices, I especially appreciate their "no-link email policy" where they will never send you links in emails, which seems like a great way to head off phishing attempts. I hope they actually present this to users in some way during sign-up though, or it won't be of much help unless a user manually navigates to the security page and rea…