Staffpad: a new class of notation app • Hacker News Board

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#31

Post by jasode » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:18 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #26

Curiosity: For all those ethusing about this, do you have keyboard skills? Piano was my primary instrument and my take on this may be skewed by the fact my primary instrument also turned out to be pretty good for composing music with, when you can literally bash out full chords in real time if the mood strikes you. If your instruments were all single-note instruments that don't hook up to computers worth a darn I cou…

Some composers (especially those with perfect pitch) can write out music without an instrument. Mozart, Bach, etc.

Many composers that use a piano will also write out the notation by hand without a MIDI interface. In the scene[1] from Amadeus, replace Salieri's quill and paper with a stylus and the iPad/Surface.

I can see Staffpad software being useful for both types of composers.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ciFTP_KRy4

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#32

Post by jerf » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

calinet6 wrote: post #28

jerf wrote: post #26

Curiosity: For all those ethusing about this, do you have keyboard skills? Piano was my primary instrument and my take on this may be skewed by the fact my primary instrument also turned out to be pretty good for composing music with, when you can literally bash out full chords in real time if the mood strikes you. If your instruments were all single-note instruments that don't hook up to computers worth a darn I cou…

Composition by writing out rhythms and chords, and writing out multiple parts for multiple instruments, is just a different experience than playing it out on a keyboard. It lets you put more thought into how things line up and are organized, versus how they sound. That sounds downright unmusical but it's a big difference, I think. This is just from my limited experience as a hobby composer sitting in front of a keybo…

I did it with synthesizer and computer. What you say is still true, though, since that probably qualifies as yet a third way of composing.

For that matter I instantly noticed a difference going from ScreamTracker to a MIDI synth, too. Didn't even have an acclimation period, it was immediately of a different nature.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#33

Post by chairleader » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

tatx wrote: post #12

Just wondering - wouldn't it be easier, not only for music notation but also for math and other scientific notation, if there was an on-screen keyboard custom-built for this very purpose with the required symbols and movement keys? After all, why require a stylus and why sketch the characters when you can just as easily type (actually, typing may turn out to be a much faster input method). Is there a real benefit to…

Experienced composers and arrangers will have spent years writing on staff paper, building speed and accuracy. This shorthand and muscle memory will be irreplaceable for their target market.

You get a sense of the experience watching the video: quarter notes are just a short diagonal line, all the note stems are perfectly vertical.

In a way, this problem space is perfect fodder for automation. If a musician can sightread off of your chicken-scratched sheet music, the computer will be able to do a decent job too.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#34

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:23 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #23

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

[deleted]

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#35

Post by pervycreeper » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:26 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #10

ThePhysicist wrote: post #2

When I saw this my first thought was: We need something like that for Math / technical drawing. I can understand that music is a good first application of this technology, but entering mathematical and engineering-related content through such an interface could be a huge deal as well.

I think math would require more error correction than music. Musical notation is pretty easy to get right, whereas math has a much larger symbol lexicon. Edit: Why the hell was this downmodded?

Musical notation can actually get really hairy even when restricting yourself to pre-20th century conventions. Another notation product currently in development has a very interesting blog that delves into some of these issues (http://blog.steinberg.net/ ).

Math, on the other hand, is actually way easier even including things like mapping diagrams.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#36

Post by codeulike » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:27 PM UTC

Interestingly, it interprets each pen stroke in the context of the wider piece of music, and makes use of temporal information such as the order the strokes are made in. Whereas classic OCR would just try and interpret the static 'picture':

Key to the way StaffPad works is its method of recognizing your scribbles. It looks at every individual stroke you make and then interprets what you wrote based on the relationship of each stroke to all of the others. David says that “it’s more efficient and accurate to take the position and temporal information from the pen, and then use musical context to decide what the music is trying to be. That way, you can do things that would totally confuse OCR. Because we know the order of the strokes and where they are in relation to the notes, we can say, OK, that’s a natural, that’s a sharp.”

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/staffpad-is-a-music-handwri...

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#37

Post by pierrec » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

calinet6 wrote: post #29

danielhunt wrote: post #5

As far as I'm concerned, this is world-changing technology - a (seemingly?) easy to use, natural-looking, efficient data-entry mechanism that looks like something from the future. That is an absolutely fantastic demo - I was hooked on the background-video within 3 seconds, and found myself wishing the MP3 would play when he was exporting it at the end. Bravo.

Really, I was hooked on the video as soon as he did the pen flourish 4 seconds in. Nailed it.

In light of this example, it's interesting to consider that world-class pen spinners [1] might have opportunities as advertising consultants. "Let us perform or teach you the exact pen spin that's required for your advertisement - should it communicate confidence, sophistication, should it be quick n' simple or slightly over-the-top? We've got you covered."

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_spinning

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#38

Post by mbubb » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:29 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #36

Interestingly, it interprets each pen stroke in the context of the wider piece of music, and makes use of temporal information such as the order the strokes are made in. Whereas classic OCR would just try and interpret the static 'picture': Key to the way StaffPad works is its method of recognizing your scribbles. It looks at every individual stroke you make and then interprets what you wrote based on the relationshi…

Fascinating - wonder if this is similar to how a Korean phoneme or an ideogram is assembled while typing.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#39

Post by pervycreeper » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:30 PM UTC

tatx wrote: post #12

Just wondering - wouldn't it be easier, not only for music notation but also for math and other scientific notation, if there was an on-screen keyboard custom-built for this very purpose with the required symbols and movement keys? After all, why require a stylus and why sketch the characters when you can just as easily type (actually, typing may turn out to be a much faster input method). Is there a real benefit to…

Being able to select a note value from a palette, and then just drawing the head without having to bother with stems and beams would be a time saver in this case.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#40

Post by debacle » Wed, Oct 07, 2015, 1:34 PM UTC

pervycreeper wrote: post #35

debacle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think math would require more error correction than music. Musical notation is pretty easy to get right, whereas math has a much larger symbol lexicon. Edit: Why the hell was this downmodded?

Musical notation can actually get really hairy even when restricting yourself to pre-20th century conventions. Another notation product currently in development has a very interesting blog that delves into some of these issues ( http://blog.steinberg.net/ ). Math, on the other hand, is actually way easier even including things like mapping diagrams.

K