Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice • Hacker News Board

Re: Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice

#31

Post by 7952 » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:41 PM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #13

AuLaVache wrote: post #12

>The chart’s data comes from the National Snow and Ice Data Center, a collaboration between NOAA and the University of Colorado. This is the oldest data set for sea ice available—it goes back to 1978. (That’s a pretty long time, at least for satellites: Landsat, the longest continuously operated satellite-data program, only started six years earlier.) The satellite era for Arctic ice did not start in 1979. It started…

Aaah the never ending debate about global warming. It's been proven to be a scam so many times and everyone has their favorites. To me when NASA came and admit the rising temperatures on Earth do match up with rise of temperatures on most other planets of our system, including Mars, because the Sun has its rising/declining activity patters and some go into thousands of years, this was clear indication humans are like…

>> This is a clear indication humans are like a drop of blood in a Pacific Ocean

It is hardly an indication of that. Large quantities of carbon were locked away millions of years ago and are now being released. Billions of tons of fossilized vegetation and algae going up in smoke is hardly a drop in the ocean.

Re: Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice

#32

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:51 PM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #13

AuLaVache wrote: post #12

>The chart’s data comes from the National Snow and Ice Data Center, a collaboration between NOAA and the University of Colorado. This is the oldest data set for sea ice available—it goes back to 1978. (That’s a pretty long time, at least for satellites: Landsat, the longest continuously operated satellite-data program, only started six years earlier.) The satellite era for Arctic ice did not start in 1979. It started…

Aaah the never ending debate about global warming. It's been proven to be a scam so many times and everyone has their favorites. To me when NASA came and admit the rising temperatures on Earth do match up with rise of temperatures on most other planets of our system, including Mars, because the Sun has its rising/declining activity patters and some go into thousands of years, this was clear indication humans are like…

Denial doesn't end anything. Every ice pack on earth has melted or is currently melting. That means the globe is warming. Now, we really have End of discussion.

Re: Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice

#33

Post by chrisau » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 1:38 AM UTC

Why since 2005, are things the wrong way around? Increases in temperature match with increases in ice levels??!!

e.g. 2005 to 2007 saw a 0.09 decrease in temperature above norm, and a 1.16million km2 decrease in ice?

Then as the temperature increased, the ice did too, up to 2010, then temp and ice decline to 2012.

Since 2012 temp has been rising again and so has the ice.

And you wonder why there's skeptics out there?!

You can clearly see the overall trends of heat rising and ice decreasing, but graphs like this shouldn't be thrown out to the masses without reasonable explanation of the anomalies of the last 10 years.

Re: Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice

#34

Post by talmand » Thu, Oct 01, 2015, 1:38 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #30

talmand wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A horribly mismanaged attempt at putting out a house fire can cause unnecessary problems for the rest of the neighborhood.

But this is a house we can't actually leave. That changes the equation completely.

No it doesn't. Regardless of your particular situation, if you mismanage the solution, then chances are you are only making the problem worse.

Re: Visualizing the Shrinking Sea Ice

#35

Post by pyre » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:37 AM UTC

ovis wrote: post #20

pyre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's only in the summer that arctic air temperatures rise above freezing Which "freezing" are you talking about? 0C (32F)? Because sea ice has a different freezing point. > In my view the ice is probably mainly melting from below from heat transported from the Atlantic. How does ocean acidification (possibly) factor in?

Also, the sea ice itself is much fresher than the ocean, so it's melting temperature is much closer to 0C than you might expect. And even the distinction between freezing seawater and freshwater at the surface is less then 2C, so it's not a huge difference. I can't think of an obvious way that acidification factors in, unless there are important connections between sea ice and sensitive biological factors (I'm not aw…

> Also, the sea ice itself is much fresher than the ocean, so it's melting temperature is much closer to 0C than you might expect

It's not just about the sea ice melting, but also the sea ice forming. How does sea ice become "fresher" than the salt water that it formed from? How is that processing being affected?

> ... is less then 2C, so it's not a huge difference.

That's really context dependent.

> can't think of an obvious way that acidification factors in

When you dissolve substances in a solution, it changes the melting/freezing points. This is how salt works to de-ice roads during the winter. The ocean is becoming more acidic because the concentrations of other substances in it are increasing. This can affect the freezing point required to form sea ice (or for existing sea ice to melt).

I'm not sure how, or to what extent, which is why I posed it more as food for thought.