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The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

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Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#31

Post by jacabado »

adamsmith wrote: post #8
mjs wrote: post #6

"Ford’s version of radar prepares the brakes so that all you need to do is touch them to get full braking pressure if the car thinks it’s headed for a collision." That sounds like a really good way to get hit from behind. Does the system try to stop you as fast as possible, or as slow as possible while still avoiding the car in front? The second option is kinder to cars behind without such sophisticated safety system…

It'd be especially cool if it took both front and back radar into account. If nobody is behind you break more liberally but otherwise exercise more caution. (It does seem like there would be room for such an "aggressiveness" parameter, since you can't predict the future breaking behavior of the car in front of you and it might have stronger or weaker breaks.) Either way I hope all of this stuff works out to be a net…

I just saw a Top Gear episode where they tested the last Mercedes S which does just this. (talk about serendipity and having new ideas!)

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#32

Post by mike_organon »

pclark wrote: post #4

> Just like it was criminal for car makers to drag their feet pushing out seat belts, air bags, and anti-lock brakes in previous safety fights Apparently Honda couldn't get consumers to pay for ABS and had to install it by default at no extra charge in order for people to have it.

I agree that is part of the issue, many customers don't care. I think there is another relavent point.

The video of the Ford guy illustrates how companies are competing on improving this tech. If it were mandated, might that be like forcing commoditization? Companies with inferior tech would push it out too soon. There would be less competition because customers would accept the minimal and it would be harder for companies to differentiate. As opposed to now: forward-looking customers with the money can look for the best system which pushes the tech forward.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#33

Post by ams6110 »

mschy wrote: post #15
jordanb wrote: post #12

The thing about ABS is that it operates on the principle of least surprise: It takes what the user expect brakes to do (slow the car down) and makes it work even when traditional brakes would fail to perform that task. So it took a technology that the user expected to work in a certain way, and made it work better in that way. It made brake behavior less surprising to the user. This technology seems to do the opposit…

In practice what it means is that if you're about to crash into something, and you hit the brakes, that it hits them 100% right off the bat, instead of the 50% or 80% that most people would go for. I've not used the system in the Prius, but I've used a competing system and it's not at all surprising.

In many cases you're better off trying to steer around the collision than (or in addition to) stopping short of it. I've seen a few crashes where people could have just steered onto the shoulder or median to avoid the crash but it seems that they just applied the brakes and hoped for the best.

I don't think driver's education in the USA teaches emergency maneuvering much. How is it elsewhere?

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#34

Post by jacabado »

Just to put in context, a link that was here last week or so about the Automation Paradox:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/automated-to-dea...

Will there be a compromise between traditional crash deaths and safety systems induced deaths ?

Not to dismiss the new systems, I'm an optimistic by nature.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#35

Post by electromagnetic »

adamsmith wrote: post #8
mjs wrote: post #6

"Ford’s version of radar prepares the brakes so that all you need to do is touch them to get full braking pressure if the car thinks it’s headed for a collision." That sounds like a really good way to get hit from behind. Does the system try to stop you as fast as possible, or as slow as possible while still avoiding the car in front? The second option is kinder to cars behind without such sophisticated safety system…

It'd be especially cool if it took both front and back radar into account. If nobody is behind you break more liberally but otherwise exercise more caution. (It does seem like there would be room for such an "aggressiveness" parameter, since you can't predict the future breaking behavior of the car in front of you and it might have stronger or weaker breaks.) Either way I hope all of this stuff works out to be a net…

Wouldn't the ideal step be to harmonize the radar/lidar technology and have a system enabled that forces a safe driving zone. It's all too common on highways that vehicles can't stop within a safe distance if the vehicle in front of it stops, which leads to 5 vehicle pile ups.

You'd only need a moderate percentage of vehicles with the radar/lidar technology to keep a highway reasonably spaced. EG if you're tailgating, your vehicle will brake, if someone is tailgating you it will speed you up (within the speed limit) to get you to a safe distance, or (when capable) shift you safely into a different lane when you're in cruise.

Eventually you could simply have vehicles communicate, so when the guy in front of me brakes, my vehicle gets instructed that it's approaching a decelerating object. It'll be small 'safety' steps that will eventually remove human error from vehicle accidents.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#36

Post by weaksauce »

vijayshankar wrote: post #25
weaksauce wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slowing down for a red is nice but the not slowing down because it is going to turn green is scary. My friend died in a car crash because he timed the light and saw that it was going to be green. A mild red light runner t-boned his car and that was that. I say mild red light runner because had he not timed the green perfectly he probably would still be alive. Don't get me wrong this is promising technology but I…

One more argument is that there is usually a time gap between one light turning red and the other turning green. This gap should allow most of mild red light runners to pass through safely. (At least in my city in India this is true, the time gap is as big as 5 to 8 seconds)

The systems here have a time gap too but it was not sufficient in this case. I think it's at most 1-2 seconds here.

I understand that argument but I am of the school of thought that the machine should not make decisions that can impact my safety unless it is an emergency. shaving off a few seconds on my commute is not what I would call a much of a benefit when there is a substantial possible downside.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#37

Post by ams6110 »

ricree wrote: post #19

"Think about that. If we could cut down on car crashes by even 5% we could save more than 2,000 lives!" I don't know whether or not this is true, but the argument is fallacious. Without further evidence, it is a bit premature to assume that the fatal:nonfatal ratio in crashes prevented will be the same as that of crashes in general. It is possible, though unlikely, that a chance might only prevent nonfatal crashes.

Seems that I've read about studies that show that people have a certain, nearly unconscious risk tolerance. For example, ABS and all-wheel-drive made driving in the snow and ice easier, so people drive a bit faster or more aggressively until they reach their previous risk tolerance level. Thus the potential safety benefit is not realized in actuality. In fact, if people overestimate the added safety of the new technology, they may be more likely to have an accident than without it. Witness the common sight of four-wheel-drive vehicles spun off the road in a snowstorm.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#38

Post by vaksel »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #29
Devilboy wrote: post #20

BMW has a system in their top-end saloons that will safely pull your car over to the side of the road without crashing if the driver is suddenly incapacitated (e.g. a heart attack). These system are great and I hope we can overcome the social barriers eventually. Car accidents are still the #1 cause of preventable death worldwide. EDIT: Here's another great system expected to start trials in 2011: http://nextbigfutur…

how does that work if you're not right next to the shoulder?

my guess is lasers, they already check to alert you when you have cars in your blind spot, so it most likely checks those before moving you over.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#39

Post by axod »

I don't buy it. If you need a radar to tell you you're about to crash, you're probably not paying attention properly.

We should tighten up driving tests. Driving shouldn't be a right, it should be something only competent attentive people can do.

It'd be interesting to know stats on Manual vs Automatic car accident rates. I'd guess that Automatics are involved in more accidents since the drivers are probably paying less attention. Similarly cruise control.

Re: The most under-hyped, but most important, technology since seat belts

#40

Post by mattmaroon »

axod wrote: post #39

I don't buy it. If you need a radar to tell you you're about to crash, you're probably not paying attention properly. We should tighten up driving tests. Driving shouldn't be a right, it should be something only competent attentive people can do. It'd be interesting to know stats on Manual vs Automatic car accident rates. I'd guess that Automatics are involved in more accidents since the drivers are probably paying l…

It's not that you need it to tell you that, it's that the human brain, even when focused, is relatively slow to respond. Not to mention many people have a panic impulse that causes them to yell first and then step on the brakes. In certain situations where a half second can mean the difference between death and a bruised knee, it's pretty impressive stuff.
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