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Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#31

Post by tomswartz07 »

thescrewdriver wrote: post #27
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #14

You agreed to the privacy terms, so you are at the mercy of whatsoever Microsoft implemented. Windows 10 even could totally ignore your settings. I say this, not because I think that this is OK, but to reflect, that even the change of the settings do not save you from the harm, that was done from the privacy terms! Why downvoted? When you disagree, than give arguments, not gutless clicks!

Very few people will read the privacy terms. Just because they have a document people clicked 'agree' below without reading doesn't mean that MS should not be held to account for what Windows 10 is leaking. For many users not using Windows isn't an option.

The other thing to note is that they've changed the terms during an automatic update.

The terms that they changed had several opt-out (as opposed to off-by-default opt-in) features that are mentioned in OP's article.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#32

Post by Silhouette »

Hello71 wrote: post #25
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid Microsoft give 7 the boot for support like they did XP. Windows 7 is standard for workstations at the college administration where I work, and suggestions to switch to 8 are met with laughter across the board. We have trouble enough with China trying to hack us literally thousands of times per day, and there is no reason to trust Windows 10 to be any more secure.

> We have trouble enough with China trying to hack us literally thousands of times per day you mean you did "tail -f /var/log/secure". > God forbid Microsoft give 7 the boot for support like they did XP. god forbid Microsoft try to deprecate OSs after nearly 13 years. note that in 2001, the newest Linux kernel available was in the 2.4 series, with many people still using 2.2.

god forbid Microsoft try to deprecate OSs after nearly 13 years.

You seem to have invented a decade. Windows 8 RTM was just over 3 years ago.

Also, while I have some sympathy with both the idea that software isn't perfect and the idea that Microsoft need a viable business model, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a product like Windows 7 to come with essential support for a significant period of time, perhaps based on the expected working lifetime of devices where the software is normally installed.

It's true that we don't know how to make perfect software yet, but it's also still the case that those security and bug fixes are only necessary because the product as originally provided was defective. If you're making as much money from a product as Microsoft do from Windows, and if defects in your product cause harm on the scale that bugs in Windows do, I think it's fair to expect you to make good your mistakes for a reasonable period as well.

It also seems to me that Microsoft could do very well from stating a reasonable period of guaranteed support with the purchase but then offering reasonably-priced ongoing support afterwards so it have a real revenue stream to fund long-term maintenance if it turns out that devices running Windows 7 are in use for a long time. This also conveniently removes the incentive to ship successive products that are seen to be worse than what people had before.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#33

Post by PythonicAlpha »

thescrewdriver wrote: post #27
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #14

You agreed to the privacy terms, so you are at the mercy of whatsoever Microsoft implemented. Windows 10 even could totally ignore your settings. I say this, not because I think that this is OK, but to reflect, that even the change of the settings do not save you from the harm, that was done from the privacy terms! Why downvoted? When you disagree, than give arguments, not gutless clicks!

Very few people will read the privacy terms. Just because they have a document people clicked 'agree' below without reading doesn't mean that MS should not be held to account for what Windows 10 is leaking. For many users not using Windows isn't an option.

With such an argumentation, you could just trash any terms. As long as they are not against any law, they are valid, as long as they do not contain something that is totally unexpected (for example that you must pay Microsoft additional fees above the normal price).

I also think, that Microsoft should be held accountable -- but it starts with those terms!

I think, many people just rushed into Windows 10, because it was free. But free, seldom means free in deed. A clever trick of Microsoft to trick people into this.

As long the privacy terms are not effectively changed and the OS stops to send coded data to servers, this OS can not be trusted.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#34

Post by blackbeard »

Kenji wrote: post #29
blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

Can't you just redirect all that stuff it sends to 127.0.0.1 by editing your hosts file?

You can, but we have 450 workstations and about 600 servers.

That somewhat multiplies the problems.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#35

Post by PythonicAlpha »

k3d3 wrote: post #30
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #14

You agreed to the privacy terms, so you are at the mercy of whatsoever Microsoft implemented. Windows 10 even could totally ignore your settings. I say this, not because I think that this is OK, but to reflect, that even the change of the settings do not save you from the harm, that was done from the privacy terms! Why downvoted? When you disagree, than give arguments, not gutless clicks!

That doesn't make it okay

I did not say that, but I wanted to make clear, how people are tricked into this situation, where they can not trust even the OS.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#36

Post by thescrewdriver »

Until recently Microsoft had taken a far more reasonable approach to privacy than say Google. Anyone remember the MS "gmail man" ads mocking the way Google inspects your email when MS doesn't? It seems that MS under Nadella has taken a decidedly Google-like turn away from privacy with Windows 10. MS seems as hell-bent as Google and Facebook to collect as much data about you as possible, even if it is for seemingly innocuous purposes.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#37

Post by pc86 »

blackbeard wrote: post #34
Kenji wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just redirect all that stuff it sends to 127.0.0.1 by editing your hosts file?

You can, but we have 450 workstations and about 600 servers. That somewhat multiplies the problems.

> somewhat

Yes I can see how that would complicate things a little :)

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#38

Post by zippzom »

Kenji wrote: post #29
blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

Can't you just redirect all that stuff it sends to 127.0.0.1 by editing your hosts file?

I've read somewhere that it ignores the hosts file for its microsoft communication.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#40

Post by thescrewdriver »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #33
thescrewdriver wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people will read the privacy terms. Just because they have a document people clicked 'agree' below without reading doesn't mean that MS should not be held to account for what Windows 10 is leaking. For many users not using Windows isn't an option.

With such an argumentation, you could just trash any terms. As long as they are not against any law, they are valid, as long as they do not contain something that is totally unexpected (for example that you must pay Microsoft additional fees above the normal price). I also think, that Microsoft should be held accountable -- but it starts with those terms! I think, many people just rushed into Windows 10, because it w…

I've currently got a system with the Windows 10 downloaded, but I am hesitant to actually proceed with the (up?)grade. Like many people I assumed that it was just the same old Windows with more enhancements, not something with batshit crazy privacy defaults, that even when disabled still leak data.
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