31–40 of 93 posts
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Who gives a shit? Hackers. And, y'know, with this happening to be Hacker News and all, it works.
You can't "hack" html or css, they aren't languages. Furthermore, CSS is a lie. A lie for designer snobs.
CSS is used for two purposes: for styling and for layout. In my mind, the value obtained by using CSS for larger site layouts is not much. Usually, the claim is that CSS layouts help you re-target the content for another device and stuff, easily. Based on my experiences, I think that's a grand dream not likely to come true. You have almost completely re-think your UI when you are developing for a different device. Re…
>You have almost completely re-think your UI when you are developing for a different device. Re-using CSS layouts is nearly impossible for that. You don't re-use the CSS, you re-use the HTML. That's the point. All it needs is a new style sheet, not a whole new webapge.
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>The answer being who gives a shit? As a web developer, you should. It will save you work in the long run (see below). As a hacker, you should, the same way you care about the beauty of readable code in any other language. As a business owner, you should, because it will save you money, in bandwidth costs, future maintenance, training etc etc. >Does it look fine in most browsers? It looks fine in most browsers becaus…
> It will save you work in the long run That's the biggest lie of them all. And maintenance? No one does that, they do re-writes. How many hours have I wasted on this joke of not using tables?
And as far as hours wasted, having coded both ways, and originally viewing css as stupid and more work, I can now code a website in half the time using it than tables.
In fact, when I'm just hacking something quick, it's great not to bother with any layout at all and just come back to it when I have the time. You can't do that with tables.
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>You have almost completely re-think your UI when you are developing for a different device. Re-using CSS layouts is nearly impossible for that. You don't re-use the CSS, you re-use the HTML. That's the point. All it needs is a new style sheet, not a whole new webapge.
I expect that by "CSS layout", they meant "HTML which is laid out by CSS".
I think PG must have known, what I only ended up finding out myself after trying too hard to make everything CSS, is that it doesn't always need to be. I kinda wish I could have an outter body experience +add that with time travel, and go back a few months so I can kick my old self in the ASS(twice) for wasting hours trying to make a forums page in all CSS, only to give up and accomplish it with tables, in what felt…
CSS has a learning curve yes, so it always going to seem harder than it should be in the beginning, but otherwise it shouldn't make a difference time-wise to create a table or css based layout.
This came up a while ago. pg's answer was "Because we're smart enough to realize that html is object code?" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50154
That is. Table is 'not optimized object code' compared to lists. So you should ask: why your object code is not optimized (and it slow loaded and slow rendered on my PC :).
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I expect that by "CSS layout", they meant "HTML which is laid out by CSS".
Even if they did, you can basically re-do the entire UI without touching the HTML if you separate presentation from it by using CSS.
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I agree. CSS as a layout system is poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented. Why, to center an object, do I have to remember trivia like "the parent needs a width." You need hacks and non-intuitive tricks for cross-browser CSS. Tables are verbose, but they "just work" more often. I still use CSS layouts, but man what a steaming pile.
>Why, to center an object, do I have to remember trivia like "the parent needs a width." Because you're still viewing the page as a table. Once you stop doing this, you stop asking questions like these.
Because the data is tabular?