Iran Nuclear Deal Reached • Hacker News Board

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#291

Post by seivan » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 9:22 AM UTC

tome wrote: post #260

threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of countries in the world that have questionable human rights records. Many of whom the "West" has quite strong relationships with e.g. China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia. Putting a blindfold on and pretending you can just contain or ignore certain countries has failed as a strategy and will continue to fail. So unless you want to do something about Iran militarily (not feasible) then you are lookin…

You're right. Israel has such a questionable human rights record that it has been condemned more by the UNHRC than all other countries combined[1]. That UNHRC currently contains such paragons as Saudi Arabia, China and Cuba. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Co...

22 condemned on Israel

0 on Al Nusra (Al Qaida rebranded for leftists to love)

1 on ISIS.

It's not uncommon to hear Israel is worse than ISIS... in Sweden.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#292

Post by hodwik » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 12:32 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #218

hodwik wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just about everyone thought there were WMDs. The decision had been made, yes, but because we thought there were hidden caches and moving caches that the weapons inspectors were ill-equipped to find, and Saddam was comfortable with everyone (Iran especially) believing that. (I mean, people are still digging up 1980s-era WMDs in Iraq. They're pretty easy to hide, they're not large. It wasn't an insane thing to believe.…

Just about everyone thought there were WMDs That is just plain not true. Loud voices shouted over and over that it was true, it was true, here's a bullshit report we made up, believe us believe us. That's not the same as just about everyone . I read the UN inspection summary myself. It was pretty clear that there was no decent evidence of WMDs (barring some leftover materials from the discontinued productions), or a…

>"Have you seen the state of the place now?"

I'm not saying the war was free, no war is. Iraq took 116,000 people.

That being said, that number could have been much lower had the initial surge been stronger.

And we knew that Hussein was willing to risk great civilian casualties. We had seen 800,000 deaths as the result of his war with Iran, an estimated half a million killed by his secret police, 180,000 kurds, and so on.

What's more, his policies bankrupted the country, putting many into poverty.

Iraq has now seen a 600% increase in nominal GDP. They now have a national government with representatives from Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish groups. There is now twice as much electricity produced in their country. Graduation rates are up from 50% to 80% of students. The long-term benefits will be significant.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#293

Post by roymurdock » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

_oej6 wrote: post #289

roymurdock wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know why that is/are you Pakistani? If I had to guess it's probably because they look a lot different than most Pakistani's...looks are usually the strongest influencer when it comes to discrimination. I wonder why more of them don't go to Tajikistan/Uzbekistan/Kyrgyzstan where they would fit in ethnically. Probably because the socio-economic conditions there are still pretty poor, and the majority of their (u…

> If I had to guess it's probably because they look a lot different than most Pakistani's...looks are usually the strongest influencer when it comes to discrimination. A large majority of Hazaras identify themselves as 'shia muslim'[1]. While those, who target and kill Hazaras in Pakistan, belong to different sunni[2] militant/terrorist groups (for example, taliban, lashkar-e-jhangvi[3], their affiliated groups and o…

Thank you for the explanation. I hope you and your family are safe in Pakistan.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#294

Post by 1stop » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 1:36 PM UTC

Molaxx wrote: post #149

1stop wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why down vote? It fits the EXACT criteria outlined by the GP? I'd be interested to hear a rational argument for why it's okay for Israel to pursue nuclear weapons but not a neighbouring county? (Please don't resort to some quote about Iran hating Israel, as Israel have said equally extreme things as well).

show me a high ranking Israeli that says that the entire Iranian nation should be wiped off the map. I can find many quotes of people like shimon Peres that call the Iranian people friends and that Israel wishes no hostility with Iran. on the other side the highest ranking Iranian officials repeatedly call for the total annihilation of the 'Zionist entity' which is Israel. Your claim that the situation symmetric in t…

funny that your response was exactly what i cautioned against.

Japan actually invaded half the world, they have nuclear technology and capability to produce weapons. Same as Germany, Russia, and of course the US. You have countries like Pakistan that is a known host to "terrorists", and India that have them. Why is there a special club?

Iran have violent "rhetoric". What violence against israel has Iran actually perpetrated? The israel situation is a controversial one, and there have been threats, and wars. But Israel has generally been the more aggressive one, and always because they are facing "total annihilation" (for fifty+ years, in which their borders have increased rather than decreased)...

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#295

Post by rqebmm » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 4:16 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #65

seivan wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US reliance on Turkey is just a strategic position against Russia. You're a fool for thinking any deal with Iran will bring something like that to the Table. Your blind faith is incredibly disturbing.

> US reliance on Turkey is just a strategic position against Russia. It's a strategic position against everyone . Look at the map and tell me what other NATO bases you can use to dominate Middle-Eastern airspace if you lose Turkey (after having basically lost Saudi Arabia without gaining really-secure positions in Iraq and Afghanistan). Until we invent bombers with unlimited mileage, Turkey is a required ally in the…

> Look at the map and tell me what other NATO bases you can use to dominate Middle-Eastern airspace

I think this is precisely why there's been such a huge buildup of the airbase in Erbil. Granted, that wasn't a viable option a little while ago. It's going to be interesting watching the US try to pull the "roommate swap" between Turkey and the Kurds.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#296

Post by vasilipupkin » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #283

vasilipupkin wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmmm, Hillary tried to do the same thing a long time ago and failed. But more importantly, even if you are correct, that is totally irrelevant to whether or not Obama had anything to do with it.

Hillary has the political finesse of a bull in a china shop. That's always been the source of her failures.

not sure what to make of this statements. She seems to be doing pretty well right now

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#297

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

user_0001 wrote: post #105

>(besides Israel, obviously) Out of interest, why obviously? The unfaltering support given to Israel seems strange (to most outside of the US who I have spoken to). Israel has it's religious fundamentalists (just like the rest of the region). Is militarily aggressive, disregards civilian life, commits war crimes, disregards international law and opinion (with impunity due to the US and their veto - and forcing other…

Since this turned into an off-topic flamewar we've detached it from its parent and marked it off topic.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#298

Post by Myrmornis » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

I'm pleased to hear this news and I think it's a good thing. However I do think that if Iran and the USA are re-establishing relations then the USA should apologize for killing 290 civilians by shooting down a passenger jet. I don't think I can really think highly of a country that could do such a thing without apologizing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#299

Post by apta » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 6:20 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #288

apta wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's not fair to say that. Israel was created as the result of jews struggling for around 70 years to found a homeland. Why did the Palestenians have to pay the price and get kicked out of their homes then? If anything, Germany should have offered them a home given what the Nazi regime did to them.

Well that's a separate question which I don't have a complete answer for, but I will note that the number of displaced people at the formation of Israel is not particularly notable given the sizes of population transfers that happened around that time for the formation, or reformation, of nation states.

That makes it right then? What about the number of people killed since that time? And the complete destabilization and polarization of the region due to what happened?

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#300

Post by bsaul » Wed, Jul 15, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #277

bsaul wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only justified because trying to get a nuclear weapon has an impact on everyone's peace. Especially for a country that's been at war with its neighbours for the last 50 years at least, in a chaotic region filled with international terrorists groups and active war zones right at the moment.

I don't think that Iran has ever invaded another country in modern history, right? I must admit some bias here: I am a U.S. Citizen and I firmly believe that better relations with Iran are in my country's best interest. I am biased in my country's best interest!

I really wonder what advantage you think iran will bring to the US. Unless you think that radical islamism is a good ideology to spread around the world, and that the shariah may be a good basis for civil laws, because that's certainly where all the oil dollars earned by iran are going in the coming years ( just like saudi arabia spread its vision of islam in the past 30 years).