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Tesla Energy

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Re: Tesla Energy

#291

Post by psychometry »

watty wrote: post #276
ZoFreX wrote: post #261

This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…

I don't see how it's immediately beneficial for just about everyone. I currently have a flat rate for kWh and no solar panel... and moving soon. It's not worth the $. In 6 months I'll be renting for a year, still not beneficial. Perhaps in a couple years I can purchase solar, a battery, and an energy system that can automate some demand shedding but we're talking about 1%ers here. In fact, I'd say it's only immediate…

As someone who rents an apartment with no garage and has a traditional gas-powered car, I can echo your sentiment and claim that Tesla has had zero impact on my life and that this announcement doesn't change that. I sincerely hope that Tesla's many innovative business efforts improve society in some major way, but right now they're still just a high-end automative company that's exploring the renewable energy space.

I'm not trying to discount anything they've done, because it's forward-thinking and technologically impressive, but it's not like Elon Musk has saved the world just yet.

Re: Tesla Energy

#292

Post by makomk »

rdl wrote: post #179
ekianjo wrote: post #178

Great, except that all these nice batteries are produced with extremely toxic processes, involve heavy metals, and consume a whole bunch of fossil fuel during their production. Hardly a good case for the environment when you factor everything together.

Lithium-Ion batteries aren't all sweetness and light, but it's not a particularly dirty process compared to Ni-Cd, and certainly you have to factor in benefits of reduced generation.

Ni-Cd batteries are so bad for the environment that the EU is forcing companies to phase out their use. Saying that Lithium Ion batteries are better than something that's been banned for most purposes because it's so toxic is not exactly high praise.

Re: Tesla Energy

#293

Post by makomk »

sidcool wrote: post #13

Live Stream: 0. Tesla will open source its patents for the Gigafactory. 1. Elon thinks all the world's energy needs can be served with 2 billion Tesla GW powepacks. 2. Elon: "This is something we can do, need to do and should do." It's over.

Tesla doesn't own most of the patents related to the Gigafactory. They're licensing the battery technology and manufacturing techniques from Panasonic.

Re: Tesla Energy

#294

Post by lsaferite »

eli wrote: post #284
ZoFreX wrote: post #261

This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…

> power during cheaper off-peak times Pretty sure my rate is the same all the time. I wonder what percentage of electricity customers have variable rate pricing.

I'm just excited about maybe having a relatively cheap way to do whole house backup. Living in Florida we experience many power outages a year.

Re: Tesla Energy

#295

Post by geoffharcourt »

eli wrote: post #284
ZoFreX wrote: post #261

This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…

> power during cheaper off-peak times Pretty sure my rate is the same all the time. I wonder what percentage of electricity customers have variable rate pricing.

NYC has it now, but I think as generation/fuel prices rise (in the long-term) and utilities get slightly more sophisticated, we're going to see more on-demand pricing as utilities seek to apply the same price changes they pay generators for peak-demand supply to consumers.

In a situation where many people were doing load shifting, I think this could even benefit those who aren't doing load shifting themselves (by reducing peak demand across the network).

Re: Tesla Energy

#296

Post by waffle_ss »

eli wrote: post #284
ZoFreX wrote: post #261

This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…

> power during cheaper off-peak times Pretty sure my rate is the same all the time. I wonder what percentage of electricity customers have variable rate pricing.

In my experience, at least in the midwest USA, electric companies give you a choice between a flat rate or "time of use" pricing. You can pick whichever you prefer, and switch between them if you want to try a different one.

"Time of use" charges more for kWh use during peak hours and less during off-peak. Depending on your usage patterns it can be cheaper to do time of use pricing.

Re: Tesla Energy

#297

Post by lsaferite »

CHY872 wrote: post #275
IanCal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a quick bit of calculation on this. Assuming you use 10KWh per day and a perfect battery: Economy 7 KWh cost : 8.4p (Best deal I saw was 9.4 for me, but this was a figure on MSE) Standard tariff KWh cost : 14.5p (Best deal I saw was ~12 for me, but this was a figure on MSE) That'd be a £306/year cost on economy 7 and £530 on a standard, taking some more extreme figures. A $3500 (~£2300) battery would then have…

If you get 90% charge/discharge efficiency, you're multiplying the economy 7 tariff by 1/0.81 = 1.23456790 (so close) so it's more like 12.5 years, and a bit less compelling.

That is of course ignoring the other aspects, like battery backup for the house, better for the environment (?), the ability to do solar tie in, and any possible government incentives.

Re: Tesla Energy

#298

Post by je_bailey »

watty wrote: post #276
ZoFreX wrote: post #261

This is a three-pronged stroke of genius: 1) Immediate benefits to just about anyone. If you have your own solar panels, you need this (or something like it). Even if you don't, you can benefit by drawing more power during cheaper off-peak times. 2) If lots of people get in on this, we'll have the storage capacity we need on the grid to be more dependent on renewable energy. Lack of storage capacity is one of the big…

I don't see how it's immediately beneficial for just about everyone. I currently have a flat rate for kWh and no solar panel... and moving soon. It's not worth the $. In 6 months I'll be renting for a year, still not beneficial. Perhaps in a couple years I can purchase solar, a battery, and an energy system that can automate some demand shedding but we're talking about 1%ers here. In fact, I'd say it's only immediate…

You missed an additional subset of users. I live in an old neighborhood that experiences power outages and fluctuations once or twice a year. This is fantastic and something I will be installing as soon as I can. So older neighborhoods, rural areas with inconsistent power supply. All of these potentially benefit from this.

Re: Tesla Energy

#299

Post by iamthepieman »

mauricemir wrote: post #223
miratrix wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the grid tied solar inverter front - the spec sheet says the battery voltage is 350~450 V, so we're looking at 108 lithium ion cells (25 x 18650 cells?) at 400 VDC nominal. This is quite different from typical lead acid battery pack voltage of 12, 24, or 48VDC that's used for battery backup storage, so a lot of existing solar battery storage infrastructure may not even work... this means that people may need to bu…

Yes talk to telco Engineers from the power side of the biz and they will have war stories about accidents and close misses with the Central Offices (Exchanges) DC power. High Voltage/Amperage DC is quiet different to AC power and i suspect that building/wiring codes are going to need to be updated if this local storage takes off.

dropped a wrench across the terminals on the deep cycle backup batteries inside a telco switching center. Had to disconnect the whole bank of batteries to fix it because the wrench welded itself to the terminals. it wasn't a tack weld either.

Re: Tesla Energy

#300

Post by [deleted] »

nkohari wrote: post #279
watty wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's immediately beneficial for just about everyone. I currently have a flat rate for kWh and no solar panel... and moving soon. It's not worth the $. In 6 months I'll be renting for a year, still not beneficial. Perhaps in a couple years I can purchase solar, a battery, and an energy system that can automate some demand shedding but we're talking about 1%ers here. In fact, I'd say it's only immediate…

A better way of looking at it is that it's immediately beneficial to anyone who owns real estate.

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