New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle • Hacker News Board

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#291

Post by marcosdumay » Mon, Jan 19, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

pcrh wrote: post #197

alextgordon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to know who you think is a threat! The US has two borders. One with Canada, one with Mexico. Neither of these countries are likely to invade. The US has the largest naval force in the world. I believe the Coastguard is also the 13th largest. Again, nothing to fear. Of the countries that are "enemies", most would quite like to improve relations, for instance Cuba and Iran. Iran in particular has exte…

It might be more accurate to say that there are no existential threats to the US. The US certainly has competitors for geopolitcal influence (~enemies), as does any other nation.

Are you really telling me that economical competitors and war enemies are the same thing?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#292

Post by rhizome » Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 1:40 AM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #212

DanBC wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden did not gather everything. Maybe he just missed it? Or maybe GCHQ does it but NSA doesn't? We know that other bits of the US government have different levels of online presence so I'm not sure why you're so hostile to the idea that NSA has people that disrupt online conversation about NSA.

I for one try to only accuse folks of doing things I actually have evidence of them doing, and I know this sounds crazy, but there's currently no evidence the NSA is on HN astroturfing comments, so maybe we shouldn't pretend like we know things we don't.

I for one try to only accuse folks of doing things I actually have evidence of them doing

That's not true.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#293

Post by chii » Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 7:26 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #196

alextgordon wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US is doing is extraordinary, mainly because it is the only country with the resources to run the operation that it's running, but also because everybody seems to be infected with fear. If we were talking about Georgia, or Israel, or Ukraine, or Japan, I would understand the fear. But the USA has no enemies, there are no threats. It's a tragic case of paranoia.

> there are no threats. It's a tragic case of paranoia. Unless, of course, you have a non-US company competing with a US company, then you are targeted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Concerns "In the early 1990s, the U.S. National Security Agency intercepted the communications between the European aerospace company Airbus and the Saudi Arabian national airline. In 1994, Airbus lost a $6 billion contract with S…

so basically, you're against the NSA using these tactics to oust their competition (who was already doing something illegal)? why isn't the bribery receiving an equal dose of your moral high horse?

I m not saying what the NSA did was right, but that isn't really the issue i would have with their massive monitoring - it's that the information could be abused, or mis-used. The other part of the NSA problem is the National Security Letters (NSL), which is basically tyranny. I don't care that an american corporation managed to win more contracts this way, but that such powers could be abused.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#294

Post by pcrh » Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #291

pcrh wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be more accurate to say that there are no existential threats to the US. The US certainly has competitors for geopolitcal influence (~enemies), as does any other nation.

Are you really telling me that economical competitors and war enemies are the same thing?

"Geopolitical influence" covers control of both purely economic assets (e.g. oil, markets), as well as territory.

Economic competition has frequently been the underlying motivator for military action.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#295

Post by dang » Tue, Jan 20, 2015, 6:49 PM UTC

serf wrote: post #203

diminoten wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your attitude deserves the response I gave, if not something much harsher. You kill intellectual debate.

As a casual reader of the NSA/GCHQ/Snowden threads on HM I have mentally check-marked nearly every comment of yours within this thread as a different form of documented tactic of subversion used by forum plants. You sling personal insults, you point out trivial errors and falsehoods in statements by others which have nothing to do with the given point, you attempt to diminish reputations, and whatever other tactics a…

Although I was late to read it, this comment is at least as bad as the one I chastised in this thread.

It's fine for users to neutrally remind each other when they're breaking the HN guidelines. But it's not ok to insinuate evil motives, let alone that another user is a "forum plant". Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News.