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Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

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Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#291

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jonny_eh wrote: post #279
lsc wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the factors evaluated for h1b approval is whether or not the immigrant's salary is higher than the mean wages for U.S. citizens working in the same SOC category in the same area. You can make many valid arguments for loosening the American immigration laws; but driving up the average wage because that's what the government mandate assumes that companies are irrational. A profit-maximizing company is only goin…

> A profit-maximizing company is only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than a US citizen per unit work. Not true. What if the company can't find a qualified candidate? Then what they pay will likely be higher than the average worker in that industry. That's how salaries go up.

All right, they are only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than an available US citizen per unit work.

And you can't say "there are no US citizens available". Of course there are... for the right price.

Now you've got a question. Is the price excessive because there are too few US citizen workers available in that field? Or are the companies just being cheap and trying to drive down the price of skilled workers? In an environment of heavy lobbying, with very persuasive people trying to make their case, how can the government objectively tell which is going on?

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#292

Post by x0x0 »

paul wrote: post #124
x0x0 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is you're asking for visa changes to directly benefit, well, you. With most likely only tenuous benefits for others. And frankly, I do believe that Google -- and yes, YC too, viewing YC as somewhat of an umbrella organization of the companies it has incubated -- bear a certain responsibility to Americans that importing foreign workers has helped you sidestep. There's plenty of engineers here who can't / don'…

I think you misunderstood my point about YC and Google -- they would not exist without their foreign born founders. If you think the existence of Google is only of tenuous benefit to others, then I don't know what to say :)

I'm saying the marginal benefit of 5k founder visas is of tenuous benefit. Nobody (I assume?) is debating the value of google's search engine, or thinks like book search / digitization.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#293

Post by jonny_eh »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #291
jonny_eh wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A profit-maximizing company is only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than a US citizen per unit work. Not true. What if the company can't find a qualified candidate? Then what they pay will likely be higher than the average worker in that industry. That's how salaries go up.

All right, they are only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than an available US citizen per unit work. And you can't say "there are no US citizens available". Of course there are... for the right price. Now you've got a question. Is the price excessive because there are too few US citizen workers available in that field? Or are the companies just being cheap and trying to drive down the price of skilled workers…

> For the right price

Sure, if you attract them away from their current job. Then what happens to the company that had their employee taken away?

My point is that an immigrant isn't necessarily cheaper. I'm one of those immigrants on an H1B working in the US that isn't cheaper than an equivalent US worker.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#295

Post by acrooks »

LetBinding wrote: post #294

I am sold. Is anyone in Vancouver hiring? Perhaps there needs to be a "Who's hiring in Vancouver" thread, along with information on whether they will hire non-Canadians / non-Americans stuck in the Valley due to the immigration limbo.

We are: http://www.stage3systems.com/

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#296

Post by bojan »

jadc wrote: post #238
bojan wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on where exactly you are from, the Dutch process will impose an exam on you and an income requirement for your partner, and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Easier process than in the US, but not exactly an easy one.

Not sure about that. If you are in Tech (or IT as they like to call it here), you can probably qualify for the Knowledge Migrant permit ance chances are the process is a lot faster. Took me about 10 days to get a work permit in the Netherlands but I did have an employer willing to sponsor me. Another friend of mine (also in IT) took him about 1 week also.

True. The parent mentioned a girl so that made me forget about the Knowledge migrant path. It is by far a better solution. However, for people that are 30 or over, the salary requirement is on a high side.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#297

Post by disbelief »

mbesto wrote: post #125
disbelief wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries in the EU (and elsewhere) have more sane immigration systems. As a Canadian having immigrated to both Germany and the US, I can say that the US system is at least two orders of magnitude more difficult, costly, needlessly complicated, and in the end a lot of it comes down to luck (most of it bad). Germany has no lottery system, and renewal is very straightforward. I applied for my visa while in Germany as a…

What's your definition of sane? None of those countries have the scale, frequency and volume of demand that resembles anything like the US.[1] > Contrast that with how things work in the US (which I don't have time to get into in an HN comment), and you'll see why it deserves to be singled out for this. I don't think anyone is questioning that other countries have much more lax policies. The question is what is your…

> What's your definition of sane? None of those countries have the scale, frequency and volume of demand that resembles anything like the US.[1]

The most relevant statistic in the link you reference is "Pct of population" with the US at 14.3% and Germany at 11.9%. Two and a half percentage points does not seem like such a big difference in scale.

My attitude isn't "why not me" but "why is this so absurd"? I got in to both countries, but one was a total clusterfuck and one wasn't. Obviously one of them is doing something better than the other. I'm positing that the ultimate solution to demand (if one exists), is more in the direction of the German system than the random lottery of the US.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#298

Post by jtzhou »

exstudent wrote: post #237
jtzhou wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is very important for all countries, but assimilation takes time. (If you believe in the country enough to want to immigrate there, then the existing culture must have some value.) Ask Syria, Iraq or South Sudan, how they are enjoying their open borders. Meanwhile, Iceland, Japan and other countries are doing fine. Arguably, they could be richer if they allowed in more immigrants, but I'll take the rule o…

Was it a love for Native American culture that caused the original European settlers to come to the US? No, it was raw opportunity. Unless you're talking about Native American culture, then ALL culture in the US was constructed by immigrants. Even Native Americans were immigrants as they crossed the Bering land bridge ;)

Actually, American Indian culture had developed a way of life that preserved a beautiful land in a sustainable manner, while much of the world was embroiled in war, feudalism and disease. True, there were inter-tribe rivalries as well, but the land was relatively peaceful and undeveloped compared to what Europe was experiencing with the Seven Years War, Protestant-Catholic Wars and massive civil wars at the time. I don't think the early Europeans necessarily understood Amerindian culture, but they were definitely the beneficiaries of it. If American Indians had executed a more cogent immigration policy, the transition to a modern economy would probably have been easier for the natives.

Of course, much has changed since then -- with finite resources like fresh water and land in good climates being consumed in many attractive countries.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#299

Post by seanflyon »

allochthon wrote: post #130
rdtsc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what would you have done to fix the root issue -- handling a large number of H1B requests? One answer is well why should there be a cap. Well there is a cap and one reason is probably because opening the gates wide open will skew the job market in US. For better or for worse it is hard to say but if you ask those in US they might say for worse. So there is a cap. (And obviously it is being pushed agains…

but if you ask those in US they might say for worse. American here. I definitely wish it was easier for high-skilled people in other countries to obtain documents for working here.

I agree, but I think general American sentiment is against it. "They are taking our jobs"

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#300

Post by seanflyon »

jonny_eh wrote: post #293
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right, they are only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than an available US citizen per unit work. And you can't say "there are no US citizens available". Of course there are... for the right price. Now you've got a question. Is the price excessive because there are too few US citizen workers available in that field? Or are the companies just being cheap and trying to drive down the price of skilled workers…

> For the right price Sure, if you attract them away from their current job. Then what happens to the company that had their employee taken away? My point is that an immigrant isn't necessarily cheaper. I'm one of those immigrants on an H1B working in the US that isn't cheaper than an equivalent US worker.

That company that lost an employee should have been paying them more. Any company paying below market rates will have problems retaining their best employees.
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