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Forced Exposure

groklaw.net

291–300 of 430 posts

Re: Forced Exposure

#291

It is really tragic that we have reached a point where something so wonderful as Groklaw cannot effectively function. Nearly 200 years ago, de Tocqueville asked why the American experiment in self-government succeeded while its French counterpart led to the guillotine, mob excesses, and ultimate tyranny and he gave a complex answer whose core was that private moral restraints in the populace served to check the unbou…

Last night Thom Hartmann interviewed Ron Paul in his Conversations with Great Minds segment. Paul's take on all of this is that what's happening is already illegal according to the constitution, but that we aren't able to enforce the law because corporations, special interests and political lapdogs write their own laws. I'm still not sure what my stance on Paul is but I like his core political belief of nonintervention. It's similar to the golden rule but for politics, so for example if you spy on americans, you infringe their property right, in this case by stealing their privacy. An individual should be able to sue the NSA for that and win, setting a precedent for the rest of the population. The fact that they can't shows just how corrupt the system truly is. I'm not a libertarian but he made me stop and think:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/bigpicture/full-show-81913-ron-p...

Re: Forced Exposure

#292
post #281

It is really tragic that we have reached a point where something so wonderful as Groklaw cannot effectively function. Nearly 200 years ago, de Tocqueville asked why the American experiment in self-government succeeded while its French counterpart led to the guillotine, mob excesses, and ultimate tyranny and he gave a complex answer whose core was that private moral restraints in the populace served to check the unbou…

Can you comment on the difference between the 1st and 4th Amendment? It seems the current issues we face are reducible to the broadest interpretations of "reasonable" searches under National Defense claims from the Executive branch. It's hard for me to see how the Public has much recourse here. Even if they were to convince their representatives to pass new laws, this still seems like a fight between the other two br…

While the parent post is the #1 comment right now on this article, it is clearly hyperbole.

Blatant Intimidation and Control is not what the US Government does. If you want proof, compare the US handling of the Washington Post to the British handling of The Guardian. The Washington Post and New York times have been free to publish everything. The Guardian however, just had spooks smash their computers this past weekend.

The US affords the press freedom: freedom of speech, freedom of debate. There are no spooks here that are trying to shut anything down, anywhere. At worst, we have some secret conversation that happened between Lavabit's owners and the FBI. No one forced anyone to shut anything down however, most certainly not in this Groklaw case.

Abuses that have come to light are all under-the-table sort of affairs. Metadata collection is not technically data, and therefore isn't afforded 4th amendment protections. (See Smith v Maryland). Information gathered from the NSA technically can't be used in a prosecution case, so the DEA unofficially changes the story before it gets told to a judge (see Parallel Construction).

Some laws are working, but there are cracks in the foundation which is leading to an overall breakdown in trust. If anything, viewing the news recently has shown me that these agencies are very interested in following the _letter_ of the law, although not necessarily the spirit of the law.

------------------------

History of the US is a sobering example, of the Government constantly giving up powers in favor of its citizens. Need I remind people of the Office of Censorship in 1940s, where Government agents read every single mail that was going across the mail system? Need I remind people of COINTELPRO in 1960s, the program the FBI used to spy on Malcom X and Martin Luther King Jr ?

The US Government has historically listened to the pressures of its citizenry, and changed. It is not the time to lose hope, but the time to make your voice heard. FBI and NSA, as intimidating as they are, are run by US Citizens first and foremost.

Re: Forced Exposure

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just as safe to use GnuPG on a public terminal as it is to use any other password-protected functionality on a public terminal. You run the risk that the terminal is recording your input and that your password may be compromised. In one case, this may compromise the security of your private key, and in the other case, it may compromise the security of your email account. One could argue that GnuPG is actually sa…

The main point I was trying to make is that, if you don't own a computer of your own and you are trying to leak something, an internet cafe or other public terminal that sees use by several people might be an effective way of hiding that you sent something. If you don't own a computer of your own you have no trusted place you can go to generate a PGP key, to set its passphrase securely, to encrypt email before you us…

>If you don't own a computer of your own you have no trusted place you can go to generate a PGP key, to set its passphrase securely, to encrypt email before you use the public terminal, to decrypt what you retrieved from the public terminal on your home machine (so your passphrase can't be keylogged or your key cannot be copied), and so forth.

Correct. We should consider it a pre-requisite that someone interested in swapping secure communications has at least one computing unit which they can control. This is like asking "but if someone doesn't have fingers, how will they type at a public computer?" Most people have administrative access to at least one machine, at least a phone if not a laptop. The requirements to generate a key are not excessive.

>That's where opening a "throwaway" email address and sending something unencrypted is a viable use case.

Never said this won't ever be a viable use case. There are times when it'd be appropriate to use a one-time mail address from a public terminal and then discard it. It's really up to the individual if encryption is necessary for the content they're seeking to send.

>One would be wrong. If an adversary is keeping a copy of every file that is opened on a USB stick (which would be trivial to add as an "update", "patch", or "option" to, say, an on-demand antivirus scanner) then it's game over.

So first, this is another level of complexity, another barrier, that makes things more difficult, even if it could plausibly be executed. A random joe who sneaks a hardware keylogger between the board and the machine will not be able to do anything with this. Many amateurs will fail to understand that this kind of thing is needed. It is still much more secure to use a public terminal with the knowledge that this may happen than putting all your eggs in one basket and relying solely on keyboard input ("something you know") for security.

Secondly, if they're copying EVERY file off every USB drive that's plugged in, they may have difficulty distinguishing your key, especially if you take avoidance techniques as mentioned in my first post. Private keys that are used by GnuPG are binary, not plaintext (you can export them as armored keys, but GPG won't use these files directly). You can name the keyfile whatever you want. You can embed your key inside another file and extract it to /tmp with dd. You can put your keyring in a TrueCrypt volume. You can put it in a password-protected rar file. You can encrypt it against a key that is embedded on the stick outside of the filesystem, so that even if the terminal copies the full contents of the filesystem, they still won't be able to use your key. There are all kinds of things one can do to ensure that his key is not just sitting there to be taken, and to be reasonably secure that even if it is taken, it will be difficult to extract in a meaningful manner.

>If they have your key from the previous step then changing your passphrase does absolutely "jack" and "shit"

Yes, I'm aware of this, which is why I prefixed my statement with "[a]s long as the private key is not automatically copied by the terminal..."

> Where are you going to change this passphrase anyway that's on a computer owned/trusted by you if you don't own a computer or don't want to tie that key back to your home machine and identity?

You're not, you must have a machine you trust, as most people trying to leak content will. One could use a virtual machine to manage his identities that he didn't want registered on the host box.

>Then you'll have backdoored copies of GnuPG installed on these machines that will offer you no security.

This is a good point. You should use your own GPG binary hosted on your USB stick instead.

Re: Forced Exposure

#294

...Can PJ not figure out GnuPG? Is she officially retiring from any and all digital correspondence contrary to her notice that "[her] email [addresses] still work"? She says she's getting off the internet to whatever extent possible, and then asks people to continue to send her mail. I also find it cute that people believe facilities based in other Western nations are outside of the NSA's reach. I gotta say that stop…

GnuPG is not a solution for this. The problem is not just about the contents of the message, but knowing your communication habits. GnuPG can't encrypt who your message is going to, being replied to, when, or even the subject.

The NSA probably isn't storing all the contents of voice calls either, but it really doesn't matter all that much. They can still tell who you communicate with when and how often. That's not conducive to democracy or free speech.

Furthermore, because of how few people use GnuPG or other such tools, I would expect you'd only be targeted harder for using them.

Re: Forced Exposure

#295
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on the difference between the 1st and 4th Amendment? It seems the current issues we face are reducible to the broadest interpretations of "reasonable" searches under National Defense claims from the Executive branch. It's hard for me to see how the Public has much recourse here. Even if they were to convince their representatives to pass new laws, this still seems like a fight between the other two br…

While the parent post is the #1 comment right now on this article, it is clearly hyperbole. Blatant Intimidation and Control is not what the US Government does. If you want proof, compare the US handling of the Washington Post to the British handling of The Guardian. The Washington Post and New York times have been free to publish everything. The Guardian however, just had spooks smash their computers this past weeke…

> Blatant Intimidation and Control is not what the US Government does. If you want proof, compare the US handling of the Washington Post to the British handling of The Guardian. The Washington Post and New York times have been free to publish everything.

Ahem... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

Re: Forced Exposure

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck the NSA. Dear NSA: I can and will be designing a fully anonymous open source distributed messaging system that is entirely secure even if you tap every line in the world. At the very best, you will be able to accuse people just of running the software. If you don't like this, I'd advise you that your only option is to hire me and/or pay be enough money to become disinterested in finishing the creation of the sof…

I take it you're not a US citizen?

Or a citizen of any country that is friends with the US, or someone who is ever planning on passing through the airport of one of those countries.

Re: Forced Exposure

#298
post #294

...Can PJ not figure out GnuPG? Is she officially retiring from any and all digital correspondence contrary to her notice that "[her] email [addresses] still work"? She says she's getting off the internet to whatever extent possible, and then asks people to continue to send her mail. I also find it cute that people believe facilities based in other Western nations are outside of the NSA's reach. I gotta say that stop…

GnuPG is not a solution for this. The problem is not just about the contents of the message, but knowing your communication habits. GnuPG can't encrypt who your message is going to, being replied to, when, or even the subject. The NSA probably isn't storing all the contents of voice calls either, but it really doesn't matter all that much. They can still tell who you communicate with when and how often. That's not co…

> GnuPG is not a solution for this. The problem is not just about the contents of the message, but knowing your communication habits. GnuPG can't encrypt who your message is going to, being replied to, when, or even the subject.

GnuPG is PART of a solution to this. If you do need to hide the recipient, sender, subject line, etc., then you'll have to bolster your solution with other offerings. One suggestion may be to use temporary email addresses created through Tor, so that the gathered mail header data is not meaningful. Another suggestion would be to encrypt the data and dump it onto a filehost and send the link through a non-email channel. But in any case, it is crucial that the content of one's messages remains private.

>Furthermore, because of how few people use GnuPG or other such tools, I would expect you'd only be targeted harder for using them.

Indeed this is the case now, but as we get more people set up with GPG, it will no longer be an effective method of discrimination.

Re: Forced Exposure

#299
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama continues to push hard to steal what little privacy rights US citizens have remaining. He is openly hostile about it, and lies about it constantly. Am I exaggerating here? The scary thing is I'm not. He's not done. It's going to get worse.

What is even more scary is that we have been in freefall in this regard mostly since at least Nixon signed the Banking Secrecy Act. This was followed by Carter signing FISA.... Regan followed, signing among other things legislation to allow the military to enforce drug laws domestically as an exemption to Posse Comitatus. This meant that the military was involved in surveillance at both Ruby Ridge and Waco, and also…

The funny thing is that FISA was originally intended to curb the intelligence abuses that had come to light earlier in the '70s, in which phones were tapped, and international telegrams seized en masse, with no legal authority whatever. It doesn't seem to have been effective in that regard even before it was effectively gutted by the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, but it's still not quite of a piece with the stuff that came later.

Re: Forced Exposure

#300
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on the difference between the 1st and 4th Amendment? It seems the current issues we face are reducible to the broadest interpretations of "reasonable" searches under National Defense claims from the Executive branch. It's hard for me to see how the Public has much recourse here. Even if they were to convince their representatives to pass new laws, this still seems like a fight between the other two br…

While the parent post is the #1 comment right now on this article, it is clearly hyperbole. Blatant Intimidation and Control is not what the US Government does. If you want proof, compare the US handling of the Washington Post to the British handling of The Guardian. The Washington Post and New York times have been free to publish everything. The Guardian however, just had spooks smash their computers this past weeke…

>The US Government has historically listened to the pressures of its citizenry, and changed

While they may have changed tactics and methods they did not stop the nefarious activity.

I think you're naive to think that protesting the USGs actions have led them to stop any of it - actually it has only led to to their attempt to obfuscate their actions.

Do you recall when "The office of total information awareness" was railed against? Where it was said to be a Very Bad Thing - and it was supposedly shuttered?

Well, what do you think PRISM is a program of. The NSA IS the office of total information awareness.

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