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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#291

Post by forgiveme10k »

talmand wrote: post #164
rayiner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're haggling over the definition of "reasonable", probably based on your views of the drug laws. Do you think that in 1800, the framers would have considered it an unreasonable search to enter a home they could hear being burglarized? No. That's why the 4th uses the wiggle word "unreasonable." I'd bet the reason you think Kentucky is different is that you think drugs are a non crime. I do too, but lots of people d…

I hate to use the slippery slope argument but once you allow police to enter a residence with evidence as simple as something they might have heard through the door then there's no need to ever worry over warrants at all. How do you even prove what they heard or if they heard something in the first place? If the officer witnesses someone break into the residence then sure, but just hearing something? That doesn't pas…

I'd like to know what the cops are doing on your curtilage in the first place? Put up an 8ft fence!

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#292

Post by popee »

reader5000 wrote: post #161
potatolicious wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the idea was to color the US government as "evil" - but rather that the criticism that these are "exceptions" is off base. In all but one of the examples cited, this was acknowledged, deliberate policy of the government at many levels. Extraordinary rendition, imprisonment without charge, torture, drone strikes, all were known, approved of, and carried out with the assistance of many levels of the centr…

US doesn't have the resources to give every one of the hundreds of thousands of individuals interested in blowing up a chunk of Americans a full blown 8 month trial, 3 hots and a cot, and loving handjobs twice per week. As in all things in life there's a tradeoff between "justice" and "security". Luckily for you and most of the people in this thread, you get to benefit from the actions of people who have to make that…

But you do have resources to start wars in name of XYZ, bomb other countries because of ZYX, etc? You really should know there are objective reasons why people from other countries can't stand US government/politics during last decade. If you don't understand what i'm talking about, that same politics is going after it's own citizens now, so you will find out soon.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#293

Post by swethrowaway »

swethrowaway wrote: post #288

People seem to speak in favor of guns (outside of stuff like hunting, sports, etc, which is not really relevant here) for two reasons: 1. Self defense against common criminals 2. Safeguard against tyranni I would like to add a third reason: 3. Because I am a free man. Because I am sovereign. Because I hold inalienable rights. Because I harm no one by keeping arms. I think the first and second arguments hold some weig…

It should say "2. Safeguard against tyrannical governments". I seem to be unable to update my comment to fix the typo.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#294

Post by forgiveme10k »

pinaceae wrote: post #222
_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

a lot of the people that don't want to ban guns because of freedom do want to ban abortions. you're looking for logic in this? buhaha.

Sure, guns protect life and provide a great equalizer to those who may not have physical strength.

IOW, give anyone who can legally sign a contract and wants one a gun, no matter where they live (notice, this also deals with mental instability). That provides a level playing field when it comes to physical force.

As to abortions, once they have a working brain stem, they kind of are human beings that can feel pain.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#295

Post by saalweachter »

bmelton wrote: post #261
saalweachter wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1114 Fun fact: Timothy McVeigh was convicted of the murder of 8 federal agents who were in the Federal Building. They didn't bother to charge him with the other 160 counts of murder, because those weren't federal crimes.

Thanks for the correction, however it should also be noted that it uses the term 'murder', which by definition is different from homicide in that murder is unlawful, where homicide is not necessarily. If I kill someone attacking me, I have committed homicide, but not necessarily murder. If I kill someone ala McVeigh, I have murdered them. Since it is a federal charge, it's very likely that the 'intent' would be deter…

Yeah, the definition of "murder" is tricky. Reading http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1111 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder it looks like the sticking point is "malice aforethought". I'm not remotely close enough to a lawyer, to be able to guess which way the court would fall on that in this hypothetical situation.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#296

Post by ryguytilidie »

Well we made a law to protect whistleblowers, so we as a nation clearly understand that whistleblowers are quite important.

...Then the law was simply amended to exclude people who worked for the agencies that had the power to do the most damage.

So, unfortunately the answer is yes, we are the type of nation where you now have to seek asylum.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#297

Post by NDizzle »

Abundnce10 wrote: post #235
munificent wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where are all the street protests?! I'm going to interpret that question literally. A key thing you have to keep in mind is that in almost all of the US outside of a few very large cities, the "street" is not a useful public place. People don't gather and interact on streets in the US. They are merely channels for cars. Protesting on the streets would be as useful in most cities in the US as wandering around next t…

You bring up a good point. Maybe the best form of protest these days is not to take to the streets but rather take to the highways. Blocking a interstate highway going into/out of a large city might get more attention.

They do this already in SF.

It's the worst. You're not demonstrating anything. You're just pissing off commuters.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#298

Post by rocky1138 »

josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

Same from Canada.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#299

Post by Zak »

jvictor118 wrote: post #214
riggins wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to put my reply in context. I live in NYC. I used to be in the WTC on a weekly basis for business. I was in Rockefeller Center when anthrax was found in Rockefeller Center (that was actually kinda scary). I'm aware that 'PRISM' purportedly prevented a NYC subway bombing. This isn't to say I'm 'so brave'. It's just to give the context that I'm not removed from the situation. With that context, I'd much rather take my…

"My brother got killed in a subway bombing, but at least the government can't read my facebook messages about porn and cat pictures..." REALLY? Could you say that with a straight face to a victim's family member?

This is not about porn and cat pictures.

Let's say in a few years a corrupt politician manages to get himself elected president. For convenience, let's call him Dick Cheney. President Cheney expands the powers of the office, rewards his corporate friends who bought it for him and generally makes a mess of things. It doesn't look like he'll get a second term until there's another big terrorist attack. He makes his opponents look weak on security, further expands his power, starts three wars and gets re-elected easily. In his second term, he gets presidential term limits repealed, doubles the national debt and starts making journalists who ask too many questions "disappear".

People start to get fed up. They realize the terrorist threat is overblown. They realize President Cheney is more of a threat to the country than any outside entity. A challenger emerges. He persuasively argues for solutions all the experts agree are wonderful. He's well-spoken, good-looking, charismatic, entirely electable. He promises to restore civil liberties, release political prisoners and end intrusive surveillance. He's expected to win in a landslide. There's just one problem: he likes Thai ladyboys. Thanks to PRISM, Cheney knows, and ensures that a friend at Fox News finds irrefutable proof. Cheney wins a third term. The opposition candidate is later found with his throat slit outside a brothel in Bangkok.

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