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Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

guardian.co.uk

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Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#291

Post by mortehu »

jdp23 wrote: post #244
mortehu wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More recently he also claimed that PRISM wasn't a previous-disclosed data collection program. It hadn't been previously disclosed before; and it is collecting data. The grammar here is slightly confusing. Do you believe PRISM is collecting data in a previously undisclosed way? If so, why?

PRISM had not been previously disclosed. PRISM is collecting data.

For now (until it's replaced by hits from blogs), you can Google for "Planning Tool for Resource Integration, Synchronization, and Management", and you'll get plenty of hits describing intelligence job positions and PDFs with descriptions like "PRISM: A web-based application that provides users, at the theater level and below, with the ability to conduct Integrated Collection Management (ICM). Integrates all intelligence discipline assets with all theater requirements."

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#292

Post by pyvek »

smsm42 wrote: post #251
pyvek wrote: post #150

``He has had "a very comfortable life" that included a salary of roughly $200,000, a girlfriend with whom he shared a home in Hawaii, a stable career, and a family he loves. "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building…

What you propose to do?

First the people need to be made aware about how serious this is and why their privacy matters. Then, people will have to get on the streets for demonstrations and overwhelm their representatives with emails and phone calls asking to do something about it. Similar to how SOPA/PIPA protests were carried out.

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#293

Post by saalweachter »

cubancigar11 wrote: post #215
saalweachter wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Harry Potter in _Methods of Rationality_ observed, non-violent resistance only worked against the British because (at the time; not to say the British haven't had some bloody years) the had no stomach for butchering helpless men. Against the Nazis, however, it would be useless, because their capacity for violence was much higher. So the question you have to ask yourself, before non-violently resisting, is whether…

You do realize that it is not true, right? That British had plenty of appetite for violence. Where do people get this idea that British were compassionate to Indian cause? Just look for the hero Churchill's view of Indians on the web.

The views of individuals don't necessarily matter; it is plausible that individual leaders or soldiers still were as ruthless as ever, but if the population no longer supported it, it would be a political dead-end.

But yeah, "stuff I read in fan fiction" is on the lowest tier of my information-trust-chart. I'm a bit curious about why the British did give up on colonies. Was there really a sea change in British public opinion over the course of the World Wars? Was it a moral decision or an economic one? I could think of a dozen of reasons, which makes none of them worth speculating about aloud, but honestly this part of history is also pretty low on my reading list...

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#294

Post by flyinRyan »

jlgreco wrote: post #162
miles wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To any NSA / CIA / FBI / etc. spooks who are reading this - blow me." It is easy to feel anger towards those we perceive as oppressors, but if this nascent movement (I hope it is a movement!) is to have any success, thoughts like these from Gandhi should not be forgotten: Real noncooperation is noncooperation with evil and not with the evil doer. Noncooperation is not a hymn of hate. My noncooperation is with method…

Gandhi's tactics, while plainly effective in his time and place, against his aggressors, should not be accepted as universalizable. It is not the only way to realize change, nor it is necessarily the most effective way to realize change in any particular situation, nor is it even necessarily a way that works in the slightest in any situation. Noncompliance and noncooperation have a time and a place. We must avoid the…

Gandhi's tactics weren't even effective then. Look up Bhagat Singh. The only reason everyone gives credit for Indian independence to Gandhi instead of Singh is that Britain didn't want anymore Singhs.

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#295

Post by flyinRyan »

einhverfr wrote: post #287
jlgreco wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gandhi's tactics, while plainly effective in his time and place, against his aggressors, should not be accepted as universalizable. It is not the only way to realize change, nor it is necessarily the most effective way to realize change in any particular situation, nor is it even necessarily a way that works in the slightest in any situation. Noncompliance and noncooperation have a time and a place. We must avoid the…

Reducing Gandhi's tactics to noncompliance and noncooperation is a great mistake. I think it is better to view them through what is in essence a key commonality between upper caste Hinduism and ancient Greek Stoicism, namely that all we can control are our own actions and responses, and therefore the greatest form of heroism is to lead the life we choose and to make that choice heroically, the rest of the world be da…

>Imagine if half the country suddenly decided to no longer respect American law. They refused to pay taxes, obey traffic law, etc. What would the government do?

Start beating the shit out of people, killing them, etc., etc. and the people would very quickly relent.

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#296

Post by flyinRyan »

evanmoran wrote: post #246
saalweachter wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Harry Potter in _Methods of Rationality_ observed, non-violent resistance only worked against the British because (at the time; not to say the British haven't had some bloody years) the had no stomach for butchering helpless men. Against the Nazis, however, it would be useless, because their capacity for violence was much higher. So the question you have to ask yourself, before non-violently resisting, is whether…

This is the first proof by fan fiction I've ever seen. Well played. The Methods of Rationality are in fact awesome, so I guess it is worth considering. Take that copyright and (potentially) reality! For those wondering what we are talking about: http://hpmor.com/ (p.s. Fawkes and Azkaban. Damn that shit got real.)

Ugh, I really wish fan fiction would stop being "a thing". If you have talent then make up your own story, ffs. Why do you need to tell stories from someone else's universe?

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#297

Post by flyinRyan »

grey-area wrote: post #16
doe88 wrote: post #11

He did something I'd honestly never have the courage to do if I were in his position. He knows he will certainly pay for his action the rest of his life but despite that he did it. I'm not easily emotional but reading this article I had some heart bumps and wanted to cry. I'm speechless. Thank You Edward Snowden for your act of heroism, the present will certainly condemn you but the history will certainly remind with…

the present will certainly condamn you I think that's really down to us, don't you? The US Government will certainly condemn his actions, but I doubt many of the public will.

Come on. Within six months, we're going to find out he raped someone or molested a child and needs to be extradited. Then people on this site are going to say "you're a bunch of conspiracy theorists. He raped that lady/kid and he needs to do the adult thing and go back to the US to face his charges. What is he so afraid of?". Watch it happen.

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#298

Post by flyinRyan »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #262
ams6110 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel officers are also not in the habit of "talking shop" in airport lounges... at least they shouldn't be. Even working in a non-classified capacity with a big consulting firm, one of the first things they warned every new employee was never talk about clients or work in public spaces.

The CIA did an extraordinary rendition in Italy a few years ago without telling the Italian government. A magistrate investigated and discovered the real names of a dozen or two CIA officers. That was easy because they gave their real names to the hotel and airlines so that they could collect points and miles. Their real names. This is the quality of CIA tradecraft. If the CIA is filled with officers who give out the…

Hollywood has a bit to answer for here. They give us things like James Bond and Jason Bourne but in reality the people who work in places like CIA are mostly the same kind of muppets who make up the bulk of every other profession.

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#299

Post by rhizome »

jlgreco wrote: post #216
rhizome wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that countering protest strategies (as distinguished from philosophies) are absorbed by the state and its authorities is the reason why marching in the streets and White House petitions and any other marginally (or not) effective approaches no longer work. Though the repercussions remain to be seen, this week we find that leaking is possibly the most effective form of protest available today, and certainly m…

The question that I guess I have is how effective is outing yourself after you have performed the leak? If the leaker had any chance of remaining secret, then I think I would say that the leaker should choose to remain secret, and in doing so live to fight another day. On the other hand, if the leaker suspects that they will be uncovered regardless, it is probably best to choose the circumstances of your unveiling. T…

The question that I guess I have is how effective is outing yourself after you have performed the leak?

Leaving aside the fact that this is still evolving, how do you propose to measure that effectiveness?

Re: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

#300

Post by rhizome »

spodek wrote: post #9

" Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said. " Thoughtful people brave enough to blow whistles seem to be the greatest check on what looks like a secret, unaccountable, illegal centralization of power based on lies from the top of the gov…

Thoughtful people brave enough to blow whistles seem to be the greatest check on what looks like a secret, unaccountable, illegal centralization of power based on lies from the top of the government on down.

Especially so when you see the oversight committee receive a bald-faced lie, where the leader of the Intelligence agencies lies to the American people by extension, since this is the only public oversight these programs receive.

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/10/james-clapper-hails-sep...

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