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Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

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Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#291

Post by e40 »

dhughes wrote: post #200
e40 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rule: if there are cars around, never cross (legally!) unless you have eye contact. That person making a right turn on a red light? They're likely looking left and will you over if you legally start to cross in front of them. However, I will note: even if you follow this rule, be prepared to jump out of the way. I have to, and often. I walk 4 miles/day in city streets. The number of times I've had to jump out of t…

When my friends and I discuss such things I like to emphasize that even if you as a pedestrian or cyclist have the right of way but you're hit and killed your objection is invalid since you're dead.

I can't tell if you agree or disagree with my statement. I, of course, agree with your statement, and it definitely follows from what I said. Legal right of way means nothing.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#292

Post by dhughes »

e40 wrote: post #291
dhughes wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my friends and I discuss such things I like to emphasize that even if you as a pedestrian or cyclist have the right of way but you're hit and killed your objection is invalid since you're dead.

I can't tell if you agree or disagree with my statement. I, of course, agree with your statement, and it definitely follows from what I said. Legal right of way means nothing.

I 100% agree with you, I just added my own interpretation how I explain it.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#293

Post by foobarbazqux »

davidw wrote: post #282
mpyne wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll be the first to agree that political extremism is aggravating, but the solution to political extremism is not the avoidance of politics altogether. On the contrary, avoidance of all politics is a wonderful individual solution to political extremism. Which is why so many "normal" people refuse to get involved at all, which is why all of us "normal" people end up so surprised every 2 years over a bunch of reacti…

> avoidance of all politics Who ever said anything about that? I'm quite interested, and in my own way, involved in politics. I also follow bicycle racing with a passion, for that matter. But I don't think either one belongs on this particular web site.

I looked back through your comments and I noticed you've been repeating this request somewhat frequently. What do you mean by politics, exactly?

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#294

Post by davidw »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #293
davidw wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> avoidance of all politics Who ever said anything about that? I'm quite interested, and in my own way, involved in politics. I also follow bicycle racing with a passion, for that matter. But I don't think either one belongs on this particular web site.

I looked back through your comments and I noticed you've been repeating this request somewhat frequently. What do you mean by politics, exactly?

This site has been a great resource for me in terms of startup material, also a good place to learn new things about 'computer stuff', and also occasionally read something genuinely new and interesting. I hate to see it dragged down into the mud of political debate, which tends to wreck communities such as this.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#295

Post by foobarbazqux »

davidw wrote: post #294
foobarbazqux wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked back through your comments and I noticed you've been repeating this request somewhat frequently. What do you mean by politics, exactly?

This site has been a great resource for me in terms of startup material, also a good place to learn new things about 'computer stuff', and also occasionally read something genuinely new and interesting. I hate to see it dragged down into the mud of political debate, which tends to wreck communities such as this.

Ok, agreed more or less, and the mud slinging is terrible, but by political debate, what exactly do you mean?

I don't think you mean simply election politics, so my assumption is that you mean any kind of debate over government policy. In this example it would be a debate over the US government policy of pursuing suspects in high speed car chases.

I can understand how these kinds of things are off topic in the general case (Istanbul protests, Boston marathon, etc.), but are you saying they're still off topic when there's a fairly clear connection to a hacking / startup story? Are the discussions about rent control in SF off topic, for instance?

My belief is that there's a grey zone where considered discussion of the pros and cons is okay, even good. For instance, I wasn't even aware that there were debates about high speed chases at all, so for me this was something new and interesting. Most of the community wrecking I've seen has happened due to in-fighting and drama, but yes political mud fights are a common enough precursor to that, because they encourage people to hold grudges and take sides, at least in my experience.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#296

Post by gaius »

e40 wrote: post #198
InclinedPlane wrote: post #140

This is a good reminder to always be a defensive and aware pedestrian. Just because you have the light or the right-of-way doesn't mean you are guaranteed a safe crossing of the street. Whenever I cross an intersection as a pedestrian I always look both ways (even on one way streets) and I always keep an eye on cars that are still in motion, especially those that don't appear to be slowing down. It's good to make the…

My rule: if there are cars around, never cross (legally!) unless you have eye contact. That person making a right turn on a red light? They're likely looking left and will you over if you legally start to cross in front of them. However, I will note: even if you follow this rule, be prepared to jump out of the way. I have to, and often. I walk 4 miles/day in city streets. The number of times I've had to jump out of t…

Eye contact is so important http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccadic_masking

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#297

Post by DanBC »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #295
davidw wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site has been a great resource for me in terms of startup material, also a good place to learn new things about 'computer stuff', and also occasionally read something genuinely new and interesting. I hate to see it dragged down into the mud of political debate, which tends to wreck communities such as this.

Ok, agreed more or less, and the mud slinging is terrible, but by political debate, what exactly do you mean? I don't think you mean simply election politics, so my assumption is that you mean any kind of debate over government policy. In this example it would be a debate over the US government policy of pursuing suspects in high speed car chases. I can understand how these kinds of things are off topic in the genera…

> My belief is that there's a grey zone where considered discussion of the pros and cons is okay, even good.

Considered discussion is welcome on HN. Unfortunately there are some topics where considered discussion is unlikely. Abortion; circumcision; Israel / Palestine; gun control; etc etc. It'd be fantastic if there was a site like HN where these topics could be discussed, especially if that site fostered calm rational discussion.

But these discussions too often deteriorate into noise, and worse into wider ranging down-voting and derailments in other threads.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#298

Post by mhartl »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #290
mhartl wrote: post #263

People are missing the main point here. This was a terrible, but not a senseless, tragedy, and there is an important lesson to learn. It's not "be more careful when crossing the street". Being a super-defensive pedestrian might have saved Andrew Reisse, but that's not the main point. It's not "don't have high speed chases". Perhaps different police policies might have averted this tragedy, but that's not the main poi…

Do you know anything about counter-insurgency warfare? This is a ridiculous suggestion.

Using the Lieber Code (http://www.civilwarhome.com/liebercode.htm), the victorious Union effectively suppressed armed resistance in the old Confederacy—including a former army of highly trained, experienced, and motivated soldiers. The 3rd St. Gang in Santa Ana is a ragtag group of dudes with pistols and the occasional submachine gun. They rule their little patch of Orange County, but they have never faced a disciplined, military-grade opponent with the will and right to crush them. They would wilt like a daisy.

Maybe it would take a month or two to break them instead of a week, but the point remains—such a gang could be crushed on a timescale tiny compared to how long they've existed. The key would be to use, not "modern" counterinsurgency theory, but rather forgotten tactics that actually work.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#299

Post by foobarbazqux »

DanBC wrote: post #297
foobarbazqux wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, agreed more or less, and the mud slinging is terrible, but by political debate, what exactly do you mean? I don't think you mean simply election politics, so my assumption is that you mean any kind of debate over government policy. In this example it would be a debate over the US government policy of pursuing suspects in high speed car chases. I can understand how these kinds of things are off topic in the genera…

> My belief is that there's a grey zone where considered discussion of the pros and cons is okay, even good. Considered discussion is welcome on HN. Unfortunately there are some topics where considered discussion is unlikely. Abortion; circumcision; Israel / Palestine; gun control; etc etc. It'd be fantastic if there was a site like HN where these topics could be discussed, especially if that site fostered calm ratio…

Well there's lesswrong I suppose, although I'm not a member. I strongly believe that if PG changed the policy from upvote agreement, downvote disagreement to upvote civility, downvote incivility, the quality of discussions would improve. For example, I was not particularly civil in the comment that started this sub-thread, but nevertheless I got 42 upvotes.

Re: Oculus Rift co-founder killed by gang trying to escape police

#300

Post by devrelm »

samatman wrote: post #207

Last night, I was walking to the store (the Walgreens next to the Berkeley Bowl, for you Bay Areans) and a drunk driver shot up onto the pavement about twenty feet in front of me. It was mere coincidence that my partner and I avoided the hospital or worse. This is a sobering thing to read the morning after that. Seriously: there was nothing I could have done to avoid that. By the time I was reacting, the car was alre…

Had a similar experience a few months ago while out with my wife in NYC. We had the walk sign at a Y intersection. A driver came through the turn going at least 30 mph. He came within an arm's length of hitting us. I definitely pay more attention now when crossing the road, even if I do have the walk sign.
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