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Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

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Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#291

Post by giardini »

_quasimodo wrote: post #259
BryanB55 wrote: post #173

I'll start by saying we do not have a gun problem in this country. We have a people problem. Speaking of people problems, I started reading these comments in hope of finding a different attitude than what I have been hearing around the topic of gun control lately. To me, HackerNews has usually been a place with more educated and informed comments but I didn't really find that here. I'm still finding misinformed peopl…

When in Germany someone breaks into your house, he will most probably not shoot you or even harm you. He will not even be carrying a gun. You know why? Because he knows that you do not have a gun. Or at least he can be pretty certain about it. Nobody likes to kill people (except a few lunatics), so nobody will kill you unless you give them a very good reason to. Drawing a gun, for example, is such a reason. By giving…

" Nobody likes to kill people (except a few lunatics), so nobody will kill you unless you give them a very good reason to."

" Nobody likes to kill people (except a few lunatics), so nobody will kill you unless you give them a very good reason to or unless they're a lunatic."

FTFY

BTW how many lunatics in Germany?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#292

Post by giardini »

rimantas wrote: post #220
rickdale wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am with you on every point you make except that guns are not comparable to a screwdriver, car or a knife when it comes to life and death. Of course there are similarities between the 'tools', but a gun is a much easier and definitive way to take a life. The differences are what stand out to me. Again, I agree its a cultural problem more than a gun problem, but I do think it all intersects.

Hurting others is the only purpose of the gun. Using screwdriver, knife (in most cases) or car to hurt other is a misuse.

"Hurting others is the only purpose of the gun."

No, during an attack, stopping an assailant is the purpose of the gun.

I'd settle for a phaser on stun but they aren't available. Guns are widely-recognized and visually-effective deterrents: often mere presentation stops an attack presentation. But they also can be used to shut down the assailant's CNS if necessary.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#293

Post by BryanB55 »

reader5000 wrote: post #262
BryanB55 wrote: post #173

I'll start by saying we do not have a gun problem in this country. We have a people problem. Speaking of people problems, I started reading these comments in hope of finding a different attitude than what I have been hearing around the topic of gun control lately. To me, HackerNews has usually been a place with more educated and informed comments but I didn't really find that here. I'm still finding misinformed peopl…

These are all standard talking points. I'll just respond to one of them: let me ask you, do you and your family wear helmets when driving around in a car? No? Don't you think you and your family would be way better off wearing a helmet in the middle of a car wreck, rather than having to wait for the paramedics to arrive, who are only out for themselves in the first place? Why are you so comfortable risking death or s…

Are you implying that developed civilized nations mean you can let your guard down and no harm will be done?

You could bring up countless other examples of things people usually do not prepare for. Bottom line is we can not prepare for everything but does that mean we should prepare for nothing?

Why do we have locks on our doors or use passwords and 2 factor authentication in a developed civilized nation?

We all pick and choose the tools that we use to keep us safe.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#294

Post by Turing_Machine »

allerratio wrote: post #198
Turing_Machine wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM How many people need to die before people everywhere realize that giving too much power to governments is not a good idea?

It's also interesting in this context that the allied forces disarmed people in Germany with the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler then armed the people in Germany again. You didn't even need a license for shotguns, rifles or ammunition. Gun control doesn't necessarily have anything to do with dictatorship. Preventing a Coup d'état with a militia is just a pipe dream. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany#H…

Read on.

"Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP (i.e., Nazi Party) members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions... Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition...Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, promulgated Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons."

"Preventing a Coup d'état with a militia is just a pipe dream."

Yes, that would be why the United States is still part of the British Empire, right?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#295

Post by Turing_Machine »

Anechoic wrote: post #171
Turing_Machine wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Given the massive mismatch of firepower, training and numbers between the government and the very best armed/trained groups " ~700,000 cops, 1.4 million active duty military and ~200 million gun owners (many of whom have had military training) is quite a mismatch, all right, but not in quite the way you think.

and ~200 million gun owners Where are you getting this number from? 200 million gun owners means that nearly 2 in 3 US citizens owns a gun which doesn't sound close to correct. http://rense.com/general62/gns.htm says 80 million gun owners. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp says 70-80 million adult gun owners. I can't find any better numbers, but 80 million sounds more reasonable. (still an order of magnitude mo…

1) You're assuming that everyone who owns a gun will say so when polled. That turns out not to be the case.

2) Even using your number, it's still 80 million compared to 2 million (and not all of those two million are going to go along with it anyway).

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#296

Post by giardini »

tomkin wrote: post #290
notdrunkatall wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing that because people might not suddenly decide to revolt en masse that... what, exactly? That a revolution is therefore not possible, and that we should then give up the right to bear arms? How ironic that you would accuse him of making a really poor argument when yours is about as poor as they come. I hope no one upvoted that drivel.

Your right to bear arms is silly. Incredibly silly and archaic. You live in 2013, not in colonial times. While the amendment made perfect sense then, it makes no sense now. The pro-gun movement seems to be completely ignorant to the staggering evidence that guns in citizen's hands are unnecessary at the least and dangerous at the worst. Society: an organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevol…

"... the staggering evidence that guns in citizen's hands are unnecessary at the least and dangerous at the worst."

Not true.

US citizens are more effective than police in handling firearms:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-t...

http://actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

scroll down to "Armed Citizens Make Fewer Mistakes Than Police"

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#297

Post by Turing_Machine »

mixonic wrote: post #216
Anechoic wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and ~200 million gun owners Where are you getting this number from? 200 million gun owners means that nearly 2 in 3 US citizens owns a gun which doesn't sound close to correct. http://rense.com/general62/gns.htm says 80 million gun owners. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp says 70-80 million adult gun owners. I can't find any better numbers, but 80 million sounds more reasonable. (still an order of magnitude mo…

There are not 200 million gun owners, but there are ~270,000,000 privately owned guns in the US ( http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states ). That's a gun for 8.5 out of 10 Americans. Or 3.4 guns for every legal gun owner. I think this is a fact gun rights folks miss. We can clear people when they purchase guns, but a gun is a lethal weapon for years. You can't guarantee it won't fall into other hands i…

How are you going to enforce "gun registration"? House-to-house searches?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#298

Post by BryanB55 »

bambax wrote: post #276
BryanB55 wrote: post #173

I'll start by saying we do not have a gun problem in this country. We have a people problem. Speaking of people problems, I started reading these comments in hope of finding a different attitude than what I have been hearing around the topic of gun control lately. To me, HackerNews has usually been a place with more educated and informed comments but I didn't really find that here. I'm still finding misinformed peopl…

> Here's a interesting video from a Sandy Hook father whose child was at Sandy Hook the day of the shooting No. This so-called Sandy Hook father IS NOT a Sandy Hook father, and his daughter WAS NOT at Sandy Hook the day of the shooting, as documented many times by himself, and described in more detail in this Slate article: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/02/07/bill_steve... So maybe you should start by g…

Ok, so his daughter was at the school down the street. Does that really change anything? He's still a member of that community and should be able to protect his children to the best of his ability.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#299

Post by Turing_Machine »

reader5000 wrote: post #268
damoncali wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The snark is unnecessary. Gun control advocates have had these goals for decades - long before Newtown - and openly speak about them. There is no tinfoil hat, no new world order. Just a political agenda by a minority of the political spectrum that uses tragedy to their advantage without apology.

That still doesnt make any sense. It's like say in nuclear energy. There are two camps: one side says it is safe the other says it isn't. However, if evidence of more and more nuclear tragedies accumulate, one side looks more and more correct than the other. That side isn't "using" a nuclear tragedy to "further their own agenda", they are simply using it to demonstrate they are correct.

Anti-nuclear hysteria is another good example.

Which "tragedies" would those be, by the way?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#300

Post by giardini »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #295
Anechoic wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and ~200 million gun owners Where are you getting this number from? 200 million gun owners means that nearly 2 in 3 US citizens owns a gun which doesn't sound close to correct. http://rense.com/general62/gns.htm says 80 million gun owners. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp says 70-80 million adult gun owners. I can't find any better numbers, but 80 million sounds more reasonable. (still an order of magnitude mo…

1) You're assuming that everyone who owns a gun will say so when polled. That turns out not to be the case. 2) Even using your number, it's still 80 million compared to 2 million (and not all of those two million are going to go along with it anyway).

"1) You're assuming that everyone who owns a gun will say so when polled. That turns out not to be the case."

So true. My favorite:

"Busted: Gun Control Legislator Dianne Feinstein Discusses Why She Concealed Carried Firearms"

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/32591-busted-gun-control-leg...

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