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The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

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Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#291

Post by josephcsible »

frieseke wrote: post #13
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

What's the material difference between this and Trump's "my button is bigger"[1] nonsense or the renaming of various bodies of water? I know the UN claims that "Correcting cartographic distortions of continental sizes constitutes an act of cognitive justice and memorial reparation." but it's purely symbolic and changes nothing geopolitically. My personal favourite equal-area projection is something like Boggs eumorph…

The UN is a body that is intended to facilitate global cooperation. This symbolic change better represents the body's members and updates an incorrect visualization, which leads to better cooperation and representation. Trump's renaming changes serve his own whims and selfish ego, they perform the opposite effect and hinder global cooperation.

There's nothing incorrect about the Mercator projection, unless your definition of incorrect covers every flat map and calls only globes correct. Every flat map projection has to make some compromises.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#292

Post by josephcsible »

akie wrote: post #144
xyzelement wrote: post #73

As the article says, all protections have some distortions and it's just a matter of which ones you chose. It's totally reasonable and rational for the African association of cartographer to push for this change - it makes their continent look bigger. At the margin, their children can look at the map and feel more significant. On the flip side, this particular map makes Europe look smaller. So it means that at the ma…

Why would anyone object to reducing their inflated size to normal size if it means artificially shrunk continents can be seen at their true size?

If it were possible to correct the size distortions with no downside, support would be unanimous. The problem is that that's impossible, and correcting the size distortion requires introducing some other kind of worse distortion. Equal Earth in particular introduces very severe shape distortion anywhere not near the center of the map (e.g., look how skewed Alaska is).

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#293

Post by stkdump »

nickdothutton wrote: post #268
respectattentio wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is insane how the big mistake lasted. After seeing each country before and after side by side on a website, it's insane how big the difference in false sizes of countries compared. Like Greenland vs Africa, come on man!! This must be a joke (and still lasted 457 years).

I thought everyone learned the Mercator use case in school? It is for marine navigation. A line of constant bearing will always appear straight on it. If you want to see the relative size of continents that's a different use case and you need a different projection.

A line of constant bearing will always be a great circle. A straight line on a mercator projection of the earth does not constitute a great circle (in fact only the equator line is a great circle and each vertical line is half of a great circle).

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#294

Post by prmph »

simonra wrote: post #286
prmph wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the practical uses of a world scale map beyond sailing? Wow, is this even a genuine question? I can use a world scale map to illustrate or explain some geographic point I make in a presentation. I can use it as a quick reminder of the geography related to some current news, etc. If the mariners want to continue using Mercator, who's stopping them?

I remain unconvinced. Even with regional maps people struggle with conceptualising that similar distances at places even relatively close can vary dramatically in time needed to traverse, or with regard to energy/fuel cost to cover, or population density, or a number of things that are important in the moment. It would be extremely hard to use a world scale map to convey actionable information that couldn't be delive…

I really do not see any proper argument you are making here.

> their (almost certainly wrong) intuition

So because some people can't use some information well, we should deny that information to all?

> I also don't really see how checking world maps would be applicable outside the news in question being consumed as entertainment,

Is this even an argument? I do not consume news purely for entertainment, neither do those in my circle

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#295

Post by marcusverus »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #179

The comments overwhelmingly say: mercator isn't really in use. So what is this weird "decolonization" push then? Virtue signalling? I see it a lot from US-based people nowadays. Seems like a weird fetish as a European.

> As the resolution itself states: "Correcting cartographic distortions of continental sizes constitutes an act of cognitive justice and memorial reparation."

Beyond parody.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#296

Post by marcusverus »

poulpy123 wrote: post #137
skew-aberration wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people say this / focus on Africa in this conversation. I've never thought Africa was small and was taught about the Berlin Conference, etc in school. All the large continents are near the equator and hence the relative size of Africa, Australia, North/South America, Asia is not affected much by the projection. Antarctica is big too, even though wildly exaggerated by Mercator. If anything, it makes mo…

Because they imply racism and colonialism

I for one am disappointed that it took 500 years for people to acknowledge that the most important consideration when choosing a map is its emotional impact on the people of Africa.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#297

Post by [deleted] »

respectattentio wrote: post #274
Citizen_Lame wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even why the Mercator projection is still being used? And no, it's not a mistake.

How it is not a mistake? Because as you see, old map is everywhere and is used for everything. Just open Google Maps and see. It's not fair to make a false map a standard being used for everything.

[deleted]

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#298

Post by zardo »

stkdump wrote: post #293
nickdothutton wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought everyone learned the Mercator use case in school? It is for marine navigation. A line of constant bearing will always appear straight on it. If you want to see the relative size of continents that's a different use case and you need a different projection.

A line of constant bearing will always be a great circle. A straight line on a mercator projection of the earth does not constitute a great circle (in fact only the equator line is a great circle and each vertical line is half of a great circle).

> A line of constant bearing will always be a great circle.

That's not right. Imagine heading due West, and keeping your compass pointing West every step anywhere not on the equator. That traces out a longitude line, not a great circle.

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#299

Post by masswerk »

perilunar wrote: post #290
masswerk wrote: post #194

Goode homolosine projection, which enjoyed some popularity in the "Space Age", deserves a mention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goode_homolosine_projection

I always thought the Goode homolosine was kind of ugly and 'lumpy' at the edges. The similar Boggs eumorphic projection is really nice though.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boggs_eumorphic_projection

Re: The UN challenges five centuries of cartography

#300

Post by somat »

emmelaich wrote: post #115
somat wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the source of my favorite border dispute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary... In summary there is a border dispute between California and Nevada, It was exacerbated by some surveying errors but the real problem appears to be the definitions of the sate borders, California was defined using one method(120 degrees longitude west of Greenwich) and Nevada was defined using another meth…

Semi-related, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Times_at_the_El_Royale is a great movie.

I just got nerd sniped by the room map in the movie, it is a minor 30 second scene where the clerk shows the guests a map of the hotel so they can pick their room.

The hotel in question is placed so it bisects the CA/NV state line. this line is north/south (there is a compass rose present) so we know Lake Tahoe is south of the hotel(the center of Lake Tahoe is where the state line stop going north/south and turns to the south east) And the movie places the hotel to be near Lake Tahoe.

However that map has a arrow pointing north marked "The Lake".

Oh no my immersion is ruined How terrible. Except, I half suspect the map designer did that on purpose, A subtle gag, sort of planting the fictional hotel in "the twilight zone"

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