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Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

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Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#291

Post by inigyou »

esikich wrote: post #178
mixdup wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can advocate for changes to a system while living and existing within the system. In fact, that's probably required to actually make any changes. No one is going to listen to some crazy kook in a cabin in Montana

You can't without making an effort to reduce your dependence on it. The most anti DC people I see are chronically online blasting their shit all over social media. Typically influencers, who make a living using said DCs, all day long. Social media directly supports what they are against. There are other ways to spread your message and when they choose the one method that directly goes against the message they are try…

Not using AI is already making you 0% dependent on these particular DCs that are shoddily built with no regard for the people around them.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#292

Post by dividedbyzero »

fragmede wrote: post #249
kulahan wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard there’s misinformation regarding water use. As far as I’ve heard, these data centers use quite a bit. I imagine they just use them for cooking and spit it back out warmer (though if we’re going to do that, I’d prefer we do it cooling a nuclear power plant, personally…) Is this not accurate? Are there any good resources that aren’t like… these companies being super honest about how super good they are?

The reality is that there are two approaches for water: open loop and closed loop, and you can guess correctly at what they mean. The problem is that's subtle and we can't have subtle conversations about things.

The problem is not that subtle, the only somewhat subtle point is that people don't differentiate between the datacenters of yore that were built sort of well and sustainably and the ones built in the current mad gold rush AI construction frenzy. The former aren't very problematic, often pretty good neighbors even, while the latter are nightmare fuel and will purposely not be built to be quiet and safe and stay within available energy capacity and not deplete struggling water tables, and they have the financial and political clout behind them to get away with pretty much anything. Small wonder no one wants them anywhere near them. Traditional DCs might be able to not be a nuisance despite using evaporative cooling, but no one would build that anywhere where there is a shortage of water, and the amount of heat to be dissipated by such a DC is way smaller.

But giving up a local water table might even be seen as an acceptable sacrifice, it's done for agriculture all the time, if only it wasn't done by and for the immense profit of corporations that aim to destroy all entry level jobs and profess to be scared by what havoc their own creation will wreak, all while creating an unprecedented financing bubble.

Like, that's not very subtle at all. You can pick out some detail and try to make it about subtleties, but the larger context is very much not about subtleties.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#293

Post by inigyou »

Aurornis wrote: post #196
mixdup wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can advocate for changes to a system while living and existing within the system. In fact, that's probably required to actually make any changes. No one is going to listen to some crazy kook in a cabin in Montana

> You can advocate for changes to a system while living and existing within the system. I see very little advocating for change and a whole lot of knee-jerk reactions to shut it down. The data center protests near me tried to complain about noise as one of their points, even though the DC was in the middle of nowhere

Other AI DCs can be heard from over a kilometer away.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#294

Post by inigyou »

veunes wrote: post #164
mixdup wrote: post #24

I don't know what DC Blox was going to put in this particular datacenter, but they are a "traditional" colocation datacenter company. Maybe this one would've been superdense GPUs with a jet engine as electrical generator causing all kinds of noise, but it's also just as likely this would've been a project that 5 years ago no one would've batted an eye over, and wouldn't cause any issues in the local neighborhood That…

Maybe, but "this would probably have been fine five years ago" is not a very reassuring standard. The physical impact matters more than whether the racks are running email servers or training models.

They're not going to run email servers. They will run AI.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#295

Post by inigyou »

deepsun wrote: post #271
eagleinparadise wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in commercial real and even I'm going to go NIMBY mode on this lol. This property shares a large boundary to the zoo and I have a very hard time believing you won't cause an impact (noise pollution eg) to the animals next door. Is there any evidence anywhere of a totally sound proof, unintrusive mega data center? I have not seen anything.

IMO noise pollution is the easiest one to solve: just put all the AC fans on the far side of the datacenter. If not enough, surround with noise absorbing panels. If not enough, just get a different fan design, more coolers, and run them at half speed. They can even afford Noctua :) I bet nearby rail yard produces way more loud noises. Datacenter is like the cleanest and most ecofriendly business you can imagine.

Can noise that can be heard a kilometer away really not be heard from the other side of a building?

Noise absorbing panels block airflow, if you didn't know that. Useless for AC.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#296

Post by inigyou »

mapping365 wrote: post #72
j2kun wrote: post #70

What I think is nice is that the political parties opposed to data center development are actually taking concrete steps, exercising specific powers, to advance their goals. So much opposition to tech boils down to whining, and then the tech companies get to do whatever they want anyway. Same complaint applies generally to the democratic establishment. It's nice to see people finally waking up to the reality that opp…

Eminent domain is like the the Thanos snap version of state power in a democratic / capitalist country. The ultimate representation of the peoples will over the individuals desire.

Eminent domain is almost always used to make corporations richer. In other parts of the country, eminent domain is being used to seize people's homes to build AI DCs.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#298

Post by ProllyInfamous »

welcome_dragon wrote: post #110

I live in Nashville. This story is all over the place in general. People assume all the things like it will make their rates go up, etc. I'm not opposed to data centers in general but the location is right next to our zoo which has grown tremendously along with the city over the past twenty years. Took my kids there when they were small and we still have a couples membership. It's very difficult even here to get fact…

Chattanooga (just hours away) has a DC Blox data center, approximately 50,000sqft (tiny!), located on the southwest corner of Main Street and Center Streets – yet if you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't know it was there. It is entirely surrounded by apartment buildings and smaller retail.

I spent most of my IBEW apprenticeship working in data centers of all sizes (5-300,000 sqft), and micro co-location facilities (like DCb's) are entirely different from the likes of the AWSes and cryptomining operations of this world (250,000sqft+).

Happy for the zoo exhibits/animals, but this particular co-lo wasn't even among the egregious data center owners.

----

My recommendation to data center planners: small cities have cheaper land, and lots of love/power/cronyism. You may get further by buddying up with the smaller fishes/communities.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#299

Post by ljm »

tptacek wrote: post #222
rtpg wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the lots are empty. Is this not the same for the data centers? Have data centers solved parking provisioning in a way office parks haven't? > Second, no, these jobs are not generally filled by neighbors of the office complexes, or even people from the muni where the office complex is situated. I mean again... are the data center jobs like ... guaranteed to be people in the local area? Isn't the nature of th…

No, it's not the same! At least not at the data centers I've seen. Go look at the Aurora CH1 CyrusOne DC and then beam yourself down 88 a bit to the nearest office building and compare. Data centers have parking, but not a lot of it. CHI1 is ringed by a single two-sided line of spots. Every big box retailer is surrounded by an ocean of asphalt larger than CHI1 itself.

It amuses me that you have consistently refused to draw the connection to this 'ocean' of asphalt and the purpose of the building it was designed for and are basically being obtuse.

But you know what is a better neighbour than a data centre or an office or a strip mall? A nice public park and local shops that support the community without you having to drive your car a distance that in any other country would be easily walkable.

Why would anybody want a monolithic megastructure sat next to their house that offers nothing good to the community itself? There is no upside for the locals. No improvement to quality of life.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#300

Post by stevenhuang »

locknitpicker wrote: post #150
tptacek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. The data centers in Aurora are surrounded with prairie green space; everything else, including the nicest office buildings, are a sea of eyesore asphalt parking lots. I get there can be real concerns, locally-specific, about energy usage (again: they…

> The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. This baseless assertion contrasts with any report or reasoning. They are noise generators operating 24/7 that eradicate social activity and purpose to such a degree that makes high-security prisons feel like community centers. Please in your own wor…

You are confusing construction of data centers with their normal operation.

Data centers are silent in normal operation. It's the construction you're hearing about that is noisy, but that goes for any construction.

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