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I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

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Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#291

Post by sandworm101 »

Telaneo wrote: post #287
sandworm101 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is expressed through drafter's notes or explanations. "Spirit" is somerhing else, something made up later by people who had nothing to do with th3 creation of the law.

> The letter of the law and the spirit of the law are two ways of interpreting rules or laws. To obey the "letter of the law" is to follow the literal reading of the words of the law, whereas following the "spirit of the law" is to follow the intention of why the law was enacted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law

It is always a good sign of modernity and relevance when the half an article's citations are to either the bible or the Talmude. And who can forget the legal touchstone that was the 1975 Systems Engineering Conference ... in Vegas.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#292

Post by Telaneo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #291
Telaneo wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The letter of the law and the spirit of the law are two ways of interpreting rules or laws. To obey the "letter of the law" is to follow the literal reading of the words of the law, whereas following the "spirit of the law" is to follow the intention of why the law was enacted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law

It is always a good sign of modernity and relevance when the half an article's citations are to either the bible or the Talmude. And who can forget the legal touchstone that was the 1975 Systems Engineering Conference ... in Vegas.

The only relevant part there was the definition, which I quoted to you. If you prefer a different one, have this one.

> the spirit of the law - noun phrase

> the aim or purpose of a law when it was written

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the%20spirit%20of...

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#293

Post by dghlsakjg »

engeljohnb wrote: post #110
deepsun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I rented an apartment in US, and the documents said that they can make videos, pictures and audio recordings of me and my family, and use it for their own purposes including commercial. I objected, but their position was that no one is going to involve legal department for me, and I am free to go away.

Rentals are exactly what I was talking about. Supposedly you can always go to someone else, but we all know in practice we can't just go without housing and if everyone decides you're "difficult," you're SOL. Earlier this week a potential landlord offered me a lease saying I had already inspected the property and found no issues with it. I asked for a chance to actually inspect before signing, and even said I would s…

I rather like the system where I live in BC, Canada where things like this cannot be waived, and the government has more or less standardized things like move in/move out inspections through standard forms. You are, of course, allowed to use your own form, but if it doesn't have all of the elements needed to make an inspection form legal it is toilet paper. No reason not to use the official and free form.

Even then, if they got you to sign this paper saying you had inspected it, but they had not made it available for inspection and pressured you to sign or lose it, the inspection would be void as far as the tribunal that handles disputes goes. If they forced you to sign an inspection report for a unit that was not complete at the time of signing it would be open and shut as an invalid inspection. The tribunal here won't allow any claim for property damages if there is not a valid move in inspection, so it really behooves the property owner to make sure the inspection is valid if they want any damages paid for.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#294

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

CalRobert wrote: post #211
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is opt in "basically impossible". That is the definition of consent. Ask BEFORE you do something. It might sound strange but most people really don't want their data gathered by everyone.

I agree!! To be clear, if you ask for consent in a way that is actually legal, almost nobody will actually consent.

True. I mean why would anyone want to give away their data.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#295

Post by rpdillon »

0xfffafaCrash wrote: post #20

> The reply I received a few days later did me the favour of putting the violation on the record. Their position, in their own words, was that "in order to receive marketing / offers, it is a condition to be a member of the customer club." That one sentence is the whole case. They had taken a right I am entitled to exercise for free and turned it into the price of admission. I don’t understand… it would be one thing…

I actually stopped reading right there and came to the comments because I was really confused.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#296

Post by aidenn0 »

sehansen wrote: post #244
aidenn0 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's considerably more than someone near me who was doing 245km/h in a 90 zone (Well 55mph which is 89km/h). I still don't know why that person didn't lose their license (other than the obvious fact that they were rich enough to afford the Lamborghini that they were driving in); it wasn't just any 55 zone, it was one with a reputation for being dangerous.

Damn, it sucks that people are allowed to get away with that kind of speed. Here in Denmark the mandatory minimum for doing over 200 km/h is losing your license for 3 years, confiscation of the vehicle and a ~$2000 fine. Unfortunately punishment isn't enough to get rid of this thing as around 1000 cars are confiscated each year. Some of them are confiscated for other reasons, like driving with a BAC above 0.2%.

If they had even temporarily impounded the car it probably would cost the driver more than the ticket, since exotic cars are likely to get damaged when towed.

Note that driving laws are entirely at the state level in the US, and this was California, which is among the most driver-friendly places in the (already driver-friendly) US. There are places in the US where the license could have been suspended for this (though typically with a duration measured in days, not years).

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#297

Post by VBprogrammer »

roelschroeven wrote: post #234
VBprogrammer wrote: post #189

I've often wondered what basis companies are using for the "opt-in to tracking or pay to opt out model". It has spread now to even fairly reputable organisations. This, at least to my understanding, runs contrary to the spirit of the GDPR regulations. Permission has to be freely given which, when the alternative is paying a subscription, it quite obviously isn't.

The only basis they have is the low chance of enforcement. It is absolutely contrary not only to the spirit but also the letter of the law.

I have a vague memory of there being some case law or interpretation here. But certainly doesn't bare much resemblance to what the original law makers had in mind.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#298

Post by ambicapter »

AlexanderHanff wrote: post #198
TonyStr wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the report from datatilsynet (Norwegian Data Protection Agency), they cite "multiple reports and tips" as the background. I suspect what happened here is that IMY concluded that this laid outside of their authority, submitted the complaint to datatilsynet and either closed the case and forgot to inform Hanff, or they may have never gotten any response from datatilsynet.

I have had several direct discussion with the Norwegian DPA throughout the case, the inspection and investigation were triggered by the IMY cross border case and I have not "sued" the regulator (neither do I say I have) I have filed a complaint against IMY (the Swedish Regulator) for failure to meet their legal obligations under Article 77(2) but then I have already had to file multiple legal complaints against IMY b…

> an absolutely terrible supervisory authority that do literally nothing

Are they allowed to do anything? Generally these sorts of bodies get their rights from some superior body, and they don't necessarily get carte blanche.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#299

Post by arjie »

AlexanderHanff wrote: post #217
arjie wrote: post #51

It's an interesting story, but I could not help but have my mind skip over it because of the LLMisms. Acts like one of those taboola reels to me. If even just there was a tutorial to get people to write in such a way that it's not obviously LLM text it would be nice because the story is interesting. I know, it's like complaining about JS etc. but it's like walking into an elevator and smelling very strong perfume. It…

They are not written by an LLM lol, I have severe ADHD, this is how I write and there is plenty of my material out there spanning the last 20+ years (long before LLMs existed) to illustrate that.

Nah this is 100% AI written.

> The reply I received a few days later did me the favour of putting the violation on the record. Their position, in their own words, was that "in order to receive marketing / offers, it is a condition to be a member of the customer club." That one sentence is the whole case. They had taken a right I am entitled to exercise for free and turned it into the price of admission.

I bet pangram would flag it. Humans don’t write like this. ADHD doesn’t cause this style of phrasing.

EDIT: Pangram predictably did in fact find it so: https://www.pangram.com/history/2e549b09-072d-4fe8-a000-e165...

Pretty unsurprising for a modern text like this to be honest. Or as one should say “Those two sections are the whole case. We took a free technology and made it the price of a blog post”.

Re: I told them forced consent was unlawful. 5 years later it cost Elkjop €1.8M

#300

Post by exogenousdata »

Telaneo wrote: post #290
wongarsu wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you even legally signing anything if they can't show you the document you are signing? I am not familiar with the nitty gritty of US law, but under German law that signature would be worthless. Even signing a document you have but are unwilling to read is legally a bit iffy (which is why for things like real estate a notary will read the paperwork to you and ask if you understood it, or why surprising clauses in…

It probably would be unenforceable in the US too, given you have no opportunity to know what you're signing, but you'd probably have to drag it before a court to settle that, and US companies know that no* individual is actually going to do that over what ultimately is (likely to only be) a minor inconvenience. * Within margin of error

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