Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am of the opinion that if it is on the internet, it is free. Just like I find free movies, so do AI companies find free books or whatever they need for their models. What's so hard to understand?
Your opinion doesn't matter when it comes to matters of the law, for right or wrong.
Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
291–300 of 313 posts
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's why American will become a full dystopia before Europe.
Europe isn't a dystopia because it could import American innovation. There's a reason Germany car manufacturers were never going to electrify by themselves.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#293Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#294Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
The UK, for example, is outside the EU and arguably Europes strongest AI hub birthing DeepMind, Stability and others. Home to top universities etc.
I think compute is certainly our weakest point but it should be possible to train a frontier-ish model on Isambard-AI if you supplement it with other London based commercial compute for post-training.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that nobody talks about is how many EU citizens already are working on frontier models, just inside US companies. That’s why the prohibition was so crippling for Anthropic. And, btw, the bang per buck that I got from OVH was better than EC2.
> The thing that nobody talks about is how many EU citizens already are working on frontier models, just inside US companies Why don't you ask yourself: how come those brilliant European minds couldn't find a job that pays well enough at home? Why could they in the US? There are many more Chinese and Indian, and other internationals working for US companies, outnumbering Europeans. It's not like Europe was intentiona…
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
A country that is a thousand years old is obviously going to have to change its constitution. European countries have gone from massive societal changes to massive societal changes (for example from monarchies to republics). The USA is a new country, and its constitutional rigidity causes a lot of social and political problems that most likely will lead to big changes in the future. Yes, some countries in Europe rema…
UK has been a constitutional monarchy since 1215 Magna Carta
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
These AI models are powerful enough to be used as cyber threats, as a minimum. They may not prove out the other GDP or ROI claims, but the ability to both improve security and dismantle is means if you're not regularly building and improving these models on the software vulnerabilities your organization has, you are increasingly vulnerable to attacks. Since it's impractical to airgap your military and readinessness c…
Ok, now I understand better the metaphor. I don't understand your conclusion about AI hype, but at at rate, your earlier point is clearer. The story I'm not readily conceiting to is that trillion-dollar frontier model training capex is the only thing that results in the defense capabilities countries need in relation to information security. From my understanding, the cyber wins being celebrated of late have come jus…
1. Cyber - already discussed - has an issue that the bigger models can actually do a full end-to-end exploration of an exploit - go from theory to an actual deployable payload.
2. CAD/CAM/Mechanics - CalculiX (ccx) - an open-source FEA and similar mechanical solver - think Siemens or ANSYS, but open-source. A team I was helping was trying to do a design mount of a physical object that would need to reduce vibrations in a frequency band - think microphone mount basically. Usual loop would be design, analyze with Siemens, go to beginning. AI loop is have AI design, then analyze using ANSYS, then analyze result, change design, iterate. That loop did not produce anything useful for elastic materials because ANSYS would take 12 hrs to do acoustic analysis using a GPU. 1 week of autonomous work by a frontier model resulted in a modification and custom solver added to ccx that could simulate the acoustics (vibrations) _in that particular problem_ in about 20 seconds - mainly because it could try new mathematical ideas, then compare them against ANSYS reference for quality of solution, and iterate. And 1 week _after that_ the frontier model - iterating on one design per minute - came up with multiple 3-d printable ground-breaking mounts - including sending one off to xeometry for printing and getting it shipped back. Existing designs had a 20 db drop in the frequency ranges needed - this one had 60. For reference 40 DB is basically infinity :) While this was for microphones - you can imagine that vibration reduction is a big thing in engine, suspension, and weapon mounting, and well, in general things that move. 3 person team btw - unthinkable even 1 year ago.
3. Pharma. Different company - but given a known Density Function Theory or Kappa Cluster molecule simulator, one can run nice agentic loops over frontier models to do chemical or pharmaceutical research - there’s a reason Anthropic is launching Claude Chemistry. Note that then limiting factor is the multi-week runtime of Kappa Cluster and similarly molecular dynamics simulators. If one _could_ speed that up for a particular problem space or molecule type, one could very very quickly have a high-end reasoning model iterate to a good molecular design - and frontier models are getting very good at precisely automating the ML research needed to do that autonomously - after all, there’s a reference there. 5 ppl - 2 years ago would be a research institute.
4. Physical AI - robotics - same principle.
5. This is basically the bet Bezos is doing with his new company.
Please do not underestimate the effect these models will have on our ability to improve our ability to effect the world - this is just starting to hit now. I think we can all extrapolate the GDP and defense impact of this - or at least that there will be a very significant one.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are not up to date, this is already in legislation process and needs the vote of the parlaiment, highly likely it will come. There is also a simplification package and a migration pact. A lot is happening right now
Can you share your sources please? When is the vote scheduled?
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the front page of their website claims "Frontier AI In Your Hands", so I guess they're not marketing it that way. I personally think there's a hint in that Mistral Medium 3.5 costs 5x the price of Mistral Large 3, and that Mistral Large is not listed anymore as a "Featured Model" and hasn't been updated since Dec 2025: https://docs.mistral.ai/models/overview But what I really base it on is an interview the Mist…
> they think the future of AI is small dedicated-task models I mean, I do too. Or at least, this will be a large market. But the natural leader for that space is the firm building the frontier models. They have the most control and access for distillation.
Speaking of me being wrong: the Mistral CEO tweeted today that they're coming out with a "fat but sparse" model in July, so big that it will only be available to governments & a few partners at first (ala Glasswing/Mythos I guess). I fear that's just marketing, but if Mistral really have gone all out to make a new truly large model & at least try to catchup to China, good luck to them!
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is behind in the sense that if tomorrow the US and China place an export ban on their models all we're left with are Mistral's ones. They are not bad, and they have made huge progress, but you're still one year behind if not more. May matter less and less as time progresses, or it may matter more if research further speeds up. Honestly I wish capitalism and globalization kept working as they did for decades, but s…
How exactly do you - or the Chinese, for that matter - place an export ban on an open weight model?