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Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

media.mercedes-benz.com

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Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#291

Post by frankus »

s08148692 wrote: post #72

Very cool. Good to see more axial flux motors in the wild - will be interesting to see if they become the new standard in future. With smaller material costs the cost to manufacture at scale could actually become lower than radial I expect radial will still dominate for at least another decade or so outside of premium performance focused cars. Radial has been battle-tested and proven. Axial still has a few more years…

I'd like to see these if these can be scaled down into ebike size, or beyond that into micromobilty form factors that people carry around (like lightweight scooters and skateboards).

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#292

Post by lobf »

waffletower wrote: post #273
lobf wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an antique BMW enthusiast, I know some people that have swapped electric motors in to 2002s and 2000 CSLs and they said it was actually a pretty disappointing experience. You lose the vintage driving experience entirely.

Yeah, it was also so sad to lose the vintage brain damage when we migrated away from leaded fuels: https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/20th-century-lead-ex...

wtf are you talking about? I drive one of these cars every day (that I need to drive, which isn’t that often really) without leaded gasoline.

It’s the punchy little m10 motor, 4 speed transmission, and incredibly low curb weight that make these cars fun to drive. You lose all that with an electric conversion.

As an aside, the most powerful F1 engine ever put on the track was made by modifying the little 4-banger m10 found in the BMW 2002. Fun fact.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#293

Post by testing22321 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #233
pbmonster wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is deleting the friction brakes entirely, saving costs, maintenance and weight. And 400kW isn't really all that much for a sports car. I remember 911 ads from the '80s that boasted "brakes with more than 1000 horse power".

So how do you stop then if the batteries are (close to) fully charged? You'd need to shunt that power into a big resistive load, and then dump that heat.

I’ve long wondered why we don’t ditch the friction brakes.

Just have the battery stop charging and report 100% full when it’s only 98% (or whatever) so there is enough capacity for some solid emergency stops in the first few minutes of driving.

Even if you have to resort to the resistor, who cares? It’s not like this is a common scenario

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#294

Post by cyberax »

lazide wrote: post #247
serf wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its less hard than you'd think unless you're really going for long range. for my sailboat I am getting rid of a 300lbs diesel and a 30gallon fuel tank with a 45lbs PMAC. That means I have opened up about 465lbs for batteries. Now, with a sailboat you're never truly out of range -- but the point stands : these things are so much lighter than ICEs on average that there is a lot of opportunity even with battery weight a…

Uh, car batteries are much heavier than most ICE’s. The curb weight on teslas’s are crazy high. BYD can be lighter because they skip on safety gear and proper structural elements - in my experience.

Top-of-the-line NMC cells have energy density around 250Wh/kg at the pack level. The newer solid-state batteries can reportedly increase this to 400Wh/kg.

So a reasonable 75kWh battery pack is going to weigh around 300kg and in future around 200kg. This is... not a lot, actually. To a point where shaving off 20-30 kg from the electric motor weight is going to result in a noticeable performance/price difference.

Teslas also don't have "crazy" weight. Model 3 is 1700kg and a comparable (in size) Ford Focus is 1300kg.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#295

Post by alt219 »

lobf wrote: post #292
waffletower wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was also so sad to lose the vintage brain damage when we migrated away from leaded fuels: https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/20th-century-lead-ex...

wtf are you talking about? I drive one of these cars every day (that I need to drive, which isn’t that often really) without leaded gasoline. It’s the punchy little m10 motor, 4 speed transmission, and incredibly low curb weight that make these cars fun to drive. You lose all that with an electric conversion. As an aside, the most powerful F1 engine ever put on the track was made by modifying the little 4-banger m10…

> As an aside, the most powerful F1 engine ever put on the track was made by modifying the little 4-banger m10 found in the BMW 2002. Fun fact.

Supposedly BMW lacked a dyno that went high enough so it's an educated guess what the actual hp was, but definitely over 1,300hp... from a 4-cylinder (turbo charged, and only lasted a few laps, but still) engine!

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#296

Post by moffkalast »

swiftcoder wrote: post #57
chinathrow wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Click "More" and scroll down: "In contrast to conventional radial flux motors, the electromagnetic flux in an axial flux motor runs parallel to the axis of rotation. The key components are arranged in a disc‑shaped layout: two rotors sandwich the stator from the left and right. This design enables an especially compact motor architecture, high power and torque density, and new freedoms in drivetrain packaging. In the…

This is the same design that enables the PCB Stator Motors, right?

Floppy disk drive motors, but for cars.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#297

Post by m463 »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #4

It would have been awesome if that article had, at any point, explained what an electric axial flux motor was, and why anyone might want one.

I was curious before reading the article and read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_flux_motor

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#298

Post by bjelkeman-again »

lazide wrote: post #247
serf wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its less hard than you'd think unless you're really going for long range. for my sailboat I am getting rid of a 300lbs diesel and a 30gallon fuel tank with a 45lbs PMAC. That means I have opened up about 465lbs for batteries. Now, with a sailboat you're never truly out of range -- but the point stands : these things are so much lighter than ICEs on average that there is a lot of opportunity even with battery weight a…

Uh, car batteries are much heavier than most ICE’s. The curb weight on teslas’s are crazy high. BYD can be lighter because they skip on safety gear and proper structural elements - in my experience.

BMW M3. Curb Weight: 3988 lb [1]

Tesla Model 3. Curb Weight: 3721 lb [2]

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/3-series

[2] https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-3

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#299

Post by woodpanel »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #65
chinathrow wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Click "More" and scroll down: "In contrast to conventional radial flux motors, the electromagnetic flux in an axial flux motor runs parallel to the axis of rotation. The key components are arranged in a disc‑shaped layout: two rotors sandwich the stator from the left and right. This design enables an especially compact motor architecture, high power and torque density, and new freedoms in drivetrain packaging. In the…

Really the kind of thing that should be earlier in an article about… that very thing the reader is wondering about, but maybe we arent the target audience?

> that very thing the reader is wondering about

Don’t mistake your curiosity for everyone else’s

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#300

Post by xethos »

lobf wrote: post #292
waffletower wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was also so sad to lose the vintage brain damage when we migrated away from leaded fuels: https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/20th-century-lead-ex...

wtf are you talking about? I drive one of these cars every day (that I need to drive, which isn’t that often really) without leaded gasoline. It’s the punchy little m10 motor, 4 speed transmission, and incredibly low curb weight that make these cars fun to drive. You lose all that with an electric conversion. As an aside, the most powerful F1 engine ever put on the track was made by modifying the little 4-banger m10…

I'd throw in the manual gearbox, the noise, vibration, smell, and being able to see the mechanical workings as well. We can get a punchy, lightweight vehicle with an EV conversion, but as you've heard from others, that leaves something to be desired
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